Can smart meter be fitted without my permission and when not present at the property?

mmmmikey

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who y1 considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago

Do gas meters have certification periods?

Thanks @Gerry1 you make a good point. 

However, the underlying point that people have made about gas meters remains the same. Nothing lasts forever and as has been pointed out there are good reasons to change old meters regardless of the smart meter rollout. I don't know what the manufacturing costs are but I wouldn't be surprised if a mass produced electronic smart gas meter actually costs less than an old-fashioned gas meter, so replacing them at end of life with smart meters may even be saving money on top of the many, many other smart meter benefits (which I know you are aware of :-) :-) :-) ).

On a more serious note I know you're not a smart meter fan (yet - there's still time to persuade you :-) ). But there's a big difference to objecting (as you do) on the basis of views and opionions which (although not agreed with by all) are reasonable (such as matters of principle) than to objecting on the basis of mis-information and misunderstanding, which is what has been happening in this thread.

matt_drummer

Zandoni said:

Thanks for that, hopefully it will all work out for you but you have invested a lot to get the returns.

It's already working, it has worked, there is no doubt that it works.

I think you have missed my point though, I didn't do this for a return, I did it primarily to stop burning gas and to a lesser extent to see how I could make it work in the most economical way.

I think you are also looking at it and thinking that there is some chance that it won't pay for itself. There is obviously so much in it that there is no chance that this will cost me more than it would have by not doing it.



What I tend to do is focus on things I can do something about.

I am not sure why you are worrying about the cost of smart meters even if you ignore the obvious benefits.

The cost is tiny really (unless my maths is way out!)

If we say that the cost of smart meters is £12.6 billion isn't that about £350 per home?

Spread over ten years that is around £3 per month.

Plus it creates jobs and jobs create taxes.

Why do you think this is so bad?

[Deleted User]

Yes some people are making small savings with smart meters after making huge outlays.

A consumer switching to Octopus’ Agile or Tracker tariffs requires nothing more than a smart meter to make significant savings compared to Ofgem capped prices.

https://scrimpr.co.uk/tools/octopus-energy-tracker/

As someone who has an analytical background, I would have thought that you would be interested in looking to see what savings you could make.

Zandoni

I still think the way that smart meters have been rolled out is scandalous, it's a sham they didn't get them right at first.

Obviously I will have to have them soon, so I'll see then if there are any savings to be made.

mmmmikey

Zandoni said:

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Why? It should be blindingly obvious to you by now that there are lots of people here who, for all kinds of different reasons, are making savings that they would not be able to make if they didn't have smart meters. 

Every objection you have given to having a smart meter has been shot down.

You started by completely missing the point about certification dates. A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago and that is nothing whatsoever to do with smart meters. Even if smart meters didn't exist, the old meter would still be replaced.

Then you went on to question the benefits of smart meters, and they have been clearly explained to you. Firstly, there are benefits around management of the grid and you have been given a summary of the main points and links to further information if you want it. Secondly, you have been shown tariff information that shows cheaper prices that are only available to customers with smart meters. Thirdly, you have been given examples of customers who are actually making savings by virtue of having had smart meters installed.

Before asking further questions, if you genuinely want to better understand the situation, could I suggest you take time to review the information you have been provided with already?

Unfortunately, there is all kinds of spurious nonsense posted on the internet from people who for whatever reason obstinately refuse to listen to the answers to questons they have asked. I wonder if you have put rather too much store on the views of those people before forming your own view based on an objective review of the facts?

Hope this helps, Mike

Yes some people are making small savings with smart meters after making huge outlays.

None of my objections have been shot down.

No points about certification dates have been missed, they were only introduced when electronic meters were brought into service.

I was a government gas meter examiner for twenty years and was present at meter manufacturers when electronic meters were introduced. All my knowledge of gas metering comes from experience not spurious nonsense on the internet.

So Mike it didn't help.

Zandoni said:

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Why? It should be blindingly obvious to you by now that there are lots of people here who, for all kinds of different reasons, are making savings that they would not be able to make if they didn't have smart meters. 

Every objection you have given to having a smart meter has been shot down.

You started by completely missing the point about certification dates. A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago and that is nothing whatsoever to do with smart meters. Even if smart meters didn't exist, the old meter would still be replaced.

Then you went on to question the benefits of smart meters, and they have been clearly explained to you. Firstly, there are benefits around management of the grid and you have been given a summary of the main points and links to further information if you want it. Secondly, you have been shown tariff information that shows cheaper prices that are only available to customers with smart meters. Thirdly, you have been given examples of customers who are actually making savings by virtue of having had smart meters installed.

Before asking further questions, if you genuinely want to better understand the situation, could I suggest you take time to review the information you have been provided with already?

Unfortunately, there is all kinds of spurious nonsense posted on the internet from people who for whatever reason obstinately refuse to listen to the answers to questons they have asked. I wonder if you have put rather too much store on the views of those people before forming your own view based on an objective review of the facts?

Hope this helps, Mike

Yes some people are making small savings with smart meters after making huge outlays.

None of my objections have been shot down.

No points about certification dates have been missed, they were only introduced when electronic meters were brought into service.

I was a government gas meter examiner for twenty years and was present at meter manufacturers when electronic meters were introduced. All my knowledge of gas metering comes from experience not spurious nonsense on the internet.

So Mike it didn't help.

Hi - sorry it didn't help.

However, you still appear to have mis-understood the information given to you about tariffs and potential savings. 

Although some people have invested in additional technology to help make the savings, others have done so with no investment in additional technology whatsoever. I'm somewhere in the middle. Perhaps my earlier post was wrong and your misundertandings have arisen because things have changed since your undoubtedly valuable past experience, which nobody is questioning? 

None of your experience changes the fact that there are a lot of contributors to this forum who are saving worthwhile amounts of money as a direct consequence of having had smart meters installed. 

It has been explained how the savings can be made and you have been given real-life examples. 

Why do you dismiss and/or doubt the information that has been given?

Gerry1

mmmmikey said:

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who y1 considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago

Do gas meters have certification periods?

I don't know what the manufacturing costs are but I wouldn't be surprised if a mass produced electronic smart gas meter actually costs less than an old-fashioned gas meter

@mmmmikey I'd be very surprised.  It seems that gas smart meters go to landfill as soon as the battery runs out, hardly very green.  Some forumites have also reported some cases of low batteries causing phantom overcharging in only five years or so.  In contrast, my trusty mechanical meter is well into its fourth decade, can be read accurately by moonlight and OFF always means OFF.

Oh, and don't forget all the costs of having to replace all the comms hubs when 2G/3G conks out in just a few years' time.

Fortunately for me, there's virtually no O2 signal around my electricity meter, so I'm probably safe for a while. 😈

mmmmikey

Hopefully smart meters will be like those dreadful RTS meters that lots of people complain about and measures will be taken to take steps to make them last a bit longer than a few years

You do make some fair points and there are undoubtedly downsides to the smart meter technology depolyed. I also share @Zandoni view that the roll out has left a lot to be desired and could have been handled much better. 

But on balance I am absolutely convinced that the advantages of smart meters outweight the disadvantages and they are an essential part of the future energy landscape. And in the meantime I'm saving money. What's not to like?

Gerry1

mmmmikey said:

You do make some fair points and there are undoubtedly downsides to the smart meter technology depolyed. I also share @Zandoni view that the roll out has left a lot to be desired and could have been handled much better.

Perhaps Rich Sunak's next reality check will be to honour the promises made to Parliament on many occasions that no-one would be forced to have a smart meter?

mmmmikey said:

And in the meantime I'm saving money.

Probably won't last, it's just the introductory offer.  Or it'll become a fake offer similar to the notorious 'Regular price £20, Loyalty Card price £2' scam that 'Which?' have recently flagged up.

mmmmikey said:

What's not to like?

That in the depths of winter when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing you'll be surge priced, load limited or load shed - but I won't !

mmmmikey

I personally think that one of the best things that "they" could do would be to stop pressurising people into having smart meters. I suspect that there are a lot of people who are holding back because they don't like being told what to do. Although I am a big fan of smart meters I really detest the kind of strong arm marketing that has been used to roll them out. Much better, IMHO, to back off the heavy handed tactics and to allow them to sell themselves. Once people realise how much they can save through TOU tariffs there will be long queues and riots in the street as folks demand their right to have a smart meter fitted NOW! OK, maybe overstating it a bit but you take the point I'm sure.

BTW if there are power cuts where you are because there aren't enough people with smart meters on TOU tariffs shifting their demand away from peak time, feel free to pop round to mine for a cup of tea while you wait for power to come back. I have a battery system to keep the lights on, a log burner and bottled gas for cooking so a power cut for a few days is no big deal. You'll find me easily enough, I have a 10m high light chaser in the garden with an illuminated sign at the top that says "Power cut, what power cut?"

[Deleted User]

mmmmikey said:

I personally think that one of the best things that "they" could do would be to stop pressurising people into having smart meters. I suspect that there are a lot of people who are holding back because they don't like being told what to do. Although I am a big fan of smart meters I really detest the kind of strong arm marketing that has been used to roll them out. Much better, IMHO, to back off the heavy handed tactics and to allow them to sell themselves. Once people realise how much they can save through TOU tariffs there will be long queues and riots in the street as folks demand their right to have a smart meter fitted NOW! OK, maybe overstating it a bit but you take the point I'm sure.

BTW if there are power cuts where you are because there aren't enough people with smart meters on TOU tariffs shifting their demand away from peak time, feel free to pop round to mine for a cup of tea while you wait for power to come back. I have a battery system to keep the lights on, a log burner and bottled gas for cooking so a power cut for a few days is no big deal. You'll find me easily enough, I have a 10m high light chaser in the garden with an illuminated sign at the top that says "Power cut, what power cut?"

The biggest mistake was giving people the right to refuse. When gas injectors were changed (coal gas to natural gas) the guys just turned up. Any dissenters had their gas capped. I don’t recall any riots in the streets.