Can smart meter be fitted without my permission and when not present at the property?

Zandoni

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

matt_drummer

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

What do you mean by need?

EssexHebridean

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

If you read back over the thread, you'll already find the explanation is there.

Zandoni

matt_drummer said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

What do you mean by need?

I’d like to know what you mean’t by your £5000 a year statement.

mmmmikey

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Why? It should be blindingly obvious to you by now that there are lots of people here who, for all kinds of different reasons, are making savings that they would not be able to make if they didn't have smart meters. 

Every objection you have given to having a smart meter has been shot down.

You started by completely missing the point about certification dates. A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago and that is nothing whatsoever to do with smart meters. Even if smart meters didn't exist, the old meter would still be replaced.

Then you went on to question the benefits of smart meters, and they have been clearly explained to you. Firstly, there are benefits around management of the grid and you have been given a summary of the main points and links to further information if you want it. Secondly, you have been shown tariff information that shows cheaper prices that are only available to customers with smart meters. Thirdly, you have been given examples of customers who are actually making savings by virtue of having had smart meters installed.

Before asking further questions, if you genuinely want to better understand the situation, could I suggest you take time to review the information you have been provided with already?

Unfortunately, there is all kinds of spurious nonsense posted on the internet from people who for whatever reason obstinately refuse to listen to the answers to questons they have asked. I wonder if you have put rather too much store on the views of those people before forming your own view based on an objective review of the facts?

Hope this helps, Mike

Gerry1

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago

Do gas meters have certification periods?

ArbitraryRandom

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago

Do gas meters have certification periods?

A quick google later:

The MID for ‘Gas Meters and Volume Conversion Devices’ Annex IV (MI-002) is implemented by The Measuring Instruments Regulations (SI 2016/1153)1 and meters placed on the market in accordance with these regulations are “deemed to be stamped” as required by Section 17 of the Gas Act 1986. As with meters approved under national legislation, there is no defined service period for MID gas meters, and these can remain in service for as long as they conform to the legal requirements.

The MID for ‘Active Electrical Energy Meters’ Annex V (MI-003) is implemented by The Measuring Instruments Regulations (SI 2016/1153)2. Meters placed on the market in accordance with these regulations are “deemed to be of an approved pattern or construction and installed in an approved manner” as required by Schedule 7 of the Electricity Act 1989. Under national legislation the vast majority of electricity meters are required to be certified and meters are issued with a defined certification life...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1074118/In-service-testing-handbook-3.61.pdf

matt_drummer

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Here goes, it's a bit boring and I will keep it basic.

We were spending £2,400 a year on gas and electricity at today's rates. I now pay £1 a month as a token direct debit, so we are already £2,400 better off.

So how do I only pay £1 per month?

I added solar panels (i did already have some that we inherited when we moved to the house, but I said we will keep it simple)
I added 38 kWh of usable battery storage.
I removed the gas boiler and replaced it with an air source heat pump (which is why I added more panels and battery storage)


I generate 12,000 kWh of electricity a year.
I export 9,000 kWh of that
The house consumes 3,000 kWh a year and the heat pump 3,500 kWh per year.


My income from FIT payments and SEG is £3,000 a year

If I add that £3,000 to the £2,400 I save from not paying for electricity consumption, gas consumption and gas standing charge (I still pay the electricity standing charge and I am happy to do so) that is a total saving of £5,400 a year.

I have to import electricity during the winter and I do all of that at E7 rates as my batteries and solar panels are big enough to run the house on the worst day.

My imports are 3,500 kWh @ 20p (I included extra for battery charge and discharge losses) so £700

£5,400 - £700 means my set up is worth £4,700 a year to me, not quite £5,000 but OK I think?


Finally, of course there are capital costs. They are repaid in around six years.

Most of the hardware will last for twenty years or more, some won't of course but keeping it simple I will have 14 years at around £5,000 a year, that's a profit of £70,000

However, I didn't do it for profit and I will be quite happy to break even. I wanted to stop burning gas and came up with this as a challenge to see if I could make it work. It's certainly not a plan for everybody and I ma not suggesting that at all.


The point is though


I COULD NOT DO IT WITHOUT A SMART METER.


(not shouting, just making sure to stick to the topic!)

Zandoni

mmmmikey said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Why? It should be blindingly obvious to you by now that there are lots of people here who, for all kinds of different reasons, are making savings that they would not be able to make if they didn't have smart meters. 

Every objection you have given to having a smart meter has been shot down.

You started by completely missing the point about certification dates. A twenty year old gas meter coming to the end of it's certification period is coming to the end of a certification period that was established by the manufacturer of the meter twenty years ago and that is nothing whatsoever to do with smart meters. Even if smart meters didn't exist, the old meter would still be replaced.

Then you went on to question the benefits of smart meters, and they have been clearly explained to you. Firstly, there are benefits around management of the grid and you have been given a summary of the main points and links to further information if you want it. Secondly, you have been shown tariff information that shows cheaper prices that are only available to customers with smart meters. Thirdly, you have been given examples of customers who are actually making savings by virtue of having had smart meters installed.

Before asking further questions, if you genuinely want to better understand the situation, could I suggest you take time to review the information you have been provided with already?

Unfortunately, there is all kinds of spurious nonsense posted on the internet from people who for whatever reason obstinately refuse to listen to the answers to questons they have asked. I wonder if you have put rather too much store on the views of those people before forming your own view based on an objective review of the facts?

Hope this helps, Mike

Yes some people are making small savings with smart meters after making huge outlays.

None of my objections have been shot down.

No points about certification dates have been missed, they were only introduced when electronic meters were brought into service.

I was a government gas meter examiner for twenty years and was present at meter manufacturers when electronic meters were introduced. All my knowledge of gas metering comes from experience not spurious nonsense on the internet.

So Mike it didn't help.

Zandoni

matt_drummer said:

Zandoni said:

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

I do slightly find myself scratching my head wondering what someone who considers a saving of potentially several hundred pounds a year is doing on a money saving forum...

My setup is worth £5,000 a year or more.

I couldn't do it without a smart meter.

I need more of an explanation than that.

Here goes, it's a bit boring and I will keep it basic.

We were spending £2,400 a year on gas and electricity at today's rates. I now pay £1 a month as a token direct debit, so we are already £2,400 better off.

So how do I only pay £1 per month?

I added solar panels (i did already have some that we inherited when we moved to the house, but I said we will keep it simple)
I added 38 kWh of usable battery storage.
I removed the gas boiler and replaced it with an air source heat pump (which is why I added more panels and battery storage)


I generate 12,000 kWh of electricity a year.
I export 9,000 kWh of that
The house consumes 3,000 kWh a year and the heat pump 3,500 kWh per year.


My income from FIT payments and SEG is £3,000 a year

If I add that £3,000 to the £2,400 I save from not paying for electricity consumption, gas consumption and gas standing charge (I still pay the electricity standing charge and I am happy to do so) that is a total saving of £5,400 a year.

I have to import electricity during the winter and I do all of that at E7 rates as my batteries and solar panels are big enough to run the house on the worst day.

My imports are 3,500 kWh @ 20p (I included extra for battery charge and discharge losses) so £700

£5,400 - £700 means my set up is worth £4,700 a year to me, not quite £5,000 but OK I think?


Finally, of course there are capital costs. They are repaid in around six years.

Most of the hardware will last for twenty years or more, some won't of course but keeping it simple I will have 14 years at around £5,000 a year, that's a profit of £70,000

However, I didn't do it for profit and I will be quite happy to break even. I wanted to stop burning gas and came up with this as a challenge to see if I could make it work. It's certainly not a plan for everybody and I ma not suggesting that at all.


The point is though


I COULD NOT DO IT WITHOUT A SMART METER.


(not shouting, just making sure to stick to the topic!)

Thanks for that, hopefully it will all work out for you but you have invested a lot to get the returns.