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Parking Code evidence - pictures of signs under £100, evidence of poor signage and no signage
Comments
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I just did a quick recon of some sites close to where I work in Guildford. Tesco Guildford: £70, Royal Surrey County Hospital (CP Plus): £40 (and there are manned patrols for it but need to double check as there are different car parks, the £40 was for the concessionary car park-I guess staff and long term patients, not sure about visiting pay and display), Nuffield Health next to the Royal Surrey: £100 (Euro Car Parks), Surrey Research Park (University of Surrey): £80 (Horizon). All within a few hundred metres of eachother. I'll get photos of the Tesco and hospital ones when I next walk past them this week.
Also when it comes to signs, is evidence of deliberate highlighting of certain signs against others, particularly at night, worth adding? The Portswood centre is awful for this. The "entrance signs" are perpendicular to car travel high up on walls (>6ft up) in an unlit entrance tunnel. Two signs, one with all caps "Customer Parking", the other with initial terms such as the time limit, private, monitored car park etc next to it. At night, the Customer Parking sign is fully retroreflective, the initial terms sign is not and is thus not visible at all in the poorly lit entrance tunnel. Google Street View has shown the signs haven't changed at all over the last half decade.3 -
@Coupon-mad i presume just responding to "parking@levellingup.gov.uk"
Hospital charges from PPCS:
A third of hospitals in England put up car park charges last year, with trusts raking in more than £254 million from parking in 2018/19.
A spokeswoman for the Patients Association said: "Charges for car parking at hospitals are a charge on people who are unwell, levied on them because they are unwell. We believe that patients should not be effectively charged for being ill.
https:/www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17322363.amp/
BOLTON NHS Foundation Trust has made almost £3 million in car parking charges over the past two years, new figures show. (2016-2018. In the financial year 2017/18, the total income was £1,465,321, slightly down on the £1,514,940 generated in 2016/17. Of the money made in 2017/18, £516,968 was paid by staff, while £977,190 came from patients and visitors. An additional £16,678 was also made through fines.
https://healthbusinessuk.net/features/conflict-charging-hospital-parking
Foundation trusts in England manage their car parks reveals 15 trusts don’t charge to park, 48 charge and keep all the income after maintenance costs are paid for, eight are given some money from the outsourced parking operator, and just 10 don’t receive any income from the outsourced parking operator. This finding is from 81 out of 120 foundation trusts answering a Freedom of Information request.
NHS hospital car parking policies in the UK
Number 8912, 11 February 2021
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8912/CBP-8912.pdf
The Conservative Party in its 2019 Manifesto said that it intended to abolish parking charges “for those in greatest need, including disabled people, frequent outpatient attenders, parents of sick children staying overnight and staff working night shifts.”
Patients Association, 2018 The Association released a policy position statement in June 2018: Charges for car parking at hospitals are a charge on people who are unwell, levied on them because they are unwell. We believe that patients should not be effectively charged for being ill. Parking at hospitals for patients, carers and visitors should be provided free of charge. Practical arrangements to prevent car parks being used by other motorists can and should be installed[…]
Macmillan’s Out of order: The hidden cost of hospital car parking (2013) said that the “most common additional costs facing people living with cancer are travelling to and from hospital”
Healthcare staff are wasting valuable time searching for parking spaces and two-thirds (64%) have been fined when tying to park at work, according to a survey published today (Sunday) by UNISON.
The time spent looking for parking adds unnecessary stress and pressure to an already stretched workforce, and can also have an impact on staff handovers and cause delays to patient appointments, says UNISON.
Source (2) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/22/hospital-staff-sick-stress-crippling-parking-fines/
Dozens of doctors, nurses and support workers have been left suffering high levels of stress and sickness after a NHS trust authorised a private car park operator to pursue them through the courts over unpaid fines.
AN ANXIOUS dad has been threatened with bailiffs over a Coventry Hospital parking fine - even though he paid for a parking ticket and has a bank transaction to prove it.
Private parking firms are threatening vulnerable NHS patients with bailiffs over minor hospital car park fines, with one hounding pensioner over 50p penalty
Surgeon slapped with £70 parking fine at Manchester Royal Infirmary as he rushed to 'save patient's life'
'You’re there because there’s been a serious problem which you’re trying to focus on... you just don’t need these parking issues on top of all of that'
Source (6) https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/lack-nottingham-hospital-parking-stress-7689141
Source (7) https://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/17381749.anger-patients-parking-penalty-chippenham-hospital/
Breaking ICO UK GDPR:
The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) breached data protection laws in the way it passed on motorists’ personal details to private parking firms, the UK’s data watchdog has ruled. It could now potentially face compensation claims from motorists as a result, according to one expert. The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has decided the DVLA “was not using the correct lawful basis to disclose vehicle keeper information”, Guardian Money can reveal.
Lichfield shopping centre
10th June, 2022
Cllr Doug Pullen, Lichfield District Council said:
“The new owners of Three Spires Shopping Centre have confirmed that they have given the required 30 days notice to terminate the contract with Excel Parking following review and feedback, and they are now in consultation with new suppliers.
“They’ve committed to upgrading the parking machines, ensuring that visitors get either a paper or e-mail receipt, and retaining the ability to pay by cash or card.
“I am really pleased that we have such a community-focused organisation now owning Three Spires Shopping Centre and we look forward to our continued engagement with them.”
12th June, 2022
MP Michael Fabricant
Lichfield MP Michael Fabricant said he was pleased to see the change of operator.
“This is seriously good news – I have never before had to deal with a company that has so little interest in engaging with genuine concerns of the customers it is meant to serve.
“Even when I have taken up miscarriages of justice with the company concerning constituents who have been served parking penalty notices by them because their machines were faulty, they have shown no interest in righting obvious wrongs.
“Good riddance to a company that damaged the good name of Lichfield by their unwillingness to engage with the community. Their lack of engagement is a testimony to how a company should not be run.
“I feel sorry for other towns who have to endure them.”
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Any business close to Dundee town centre has parking time limits or charges. Gallagher retail park is 2hrs free/pay up to 4hrs max. A tesco and M&S Food have time limits.All our supermarkets outwith town centre are all free parking no time limits morrisons sainsbury aldi x 2 tesco x 2 lidl x 4. Some monitor abuse of disabled p/child spaces signs advise pcn is £70.
Apart from asda. Their 3 stores have PE 2-3hr time limits. Can extend your time at customer service but any recording errors made are motorists responsibility according to Popla.
We've also have 4 large retail parks a B&Q and Dobbies again parking is free with no time limits.
It's reported it cost our Gov 9m to buy car parking operator out of our hosp parking contract think it's now free or time limits.
I worry if our pcn costs are higher than England Wales the cowboys will gallop up to Scotland where a greater pcn profit could be made after convincing our business community they need carpark management even when they don't.
This short video shows how easy it is for businesses to self monitor their parking.
https://horizonparking.co.uk/tesco-training/#:~:text=Horizon Parking and Tesco have,guide you through the system.2 -
This short video shows how easy it is for businesses to self monitor their parking.Has anyone yet watched that video? What a long-winded process for a Tesco trolley pusher to take a photo of an 'offending' vehicle, classify the 'offence', carry out the prescribed checks, return after the prescribed observation period, do some more photos and checks and eventually upload it to Horizon. I'm not sure if Tesco get any kick-back, but if I was a manager there, I'd want my trolly pushers pushing trolleys not spending all that time faffing around for the financial enrichment of Horizon. Horizon recommend a patrol sweep every 40 minutes. Unbelievable!
https://horizonparking.co.uk/tesco-training/#:~:text=Horizon Parking and Tesco have,guide you through the system.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street2 -
Does it help in anyway? it's taken while back in city centre Leicester.1 -
i will try to take more pics as per mentioned in few comments back in my local shopping areas.Coupon-mad said:1 -
All that faffing around is required before the pcn can be issued. I think it most unlikely tesco would provide the resource for the financial enrichment of Horizon.Umkomaas said:This short video shows how easy it is for businesses to self monitor their parking.Has anyone yet watched that video? What a long-winded process for a Tesco trolley pusher to take a photo of an 'offending' vehicle, classify the 'offence', carry out the prescribed checks, return after the prescribed observation period, do some more photos and checks and eventually upload it to Horizon. I'm not sure if Tesco get any kick-back, but if I was a manager there, I'd want my trolly pushers pushing trolleys not spending all that time faffing around for the financial enrichment of Horizon. Horizon recommend a patrol sweep every 40 minutes. Unbelievable!
https://horizonparking.co.uk/tesco-training/#:~:text=Horizon Parking and Tesco have,guide you through the system.1 -
We know that Tesco use their own staff to take pictures using a Horizon phone and app. This is proof and I have downloaded the PDF file showing how a non employee of Horizon. not approved by the BPA, probably breaking Data lawsUmkomaas said:This short video shows how easy it is for businesses to self monitor their parking.Has anyone yet watched that video? What a long-winded process for a Tesco trolley pusher to take a photo of an 'offending' vehicle, classify the 'offence', carry out the prescribed checks, return after the prescribed observation period, do some more photos and checks and eventually upload it to Horizon. I'm not sure if Tesco get any kick-back, but if I was a manager there, I'd want my trolly pushers pushing trolleys not spending all that time faffing around for the financial enrichment of Horizon. Horizon recommend a patrol sweep every 40 minutes. Unbelievable!
https://horizonparking.co.uk/tesco-training/#:~:text=Horizon Parking and Tesco have,guide you through the system.
You may care to read this back in 2015, nothing has changed. It's long but proves that Tesco hold their customers in contempt
This was a Tesco Express and I was in the store for 5 mins, no more. Came aut and there was a ticket on my car. I went back in and spoke to the Manager who was plain rude ... nothing to do with me "GUV"
I left the car park and parked across the road and watched. In half an hour there was no official warden in site, just a tesco member of staff floating around the car park
So I wrote the CEO, at the time Dave Lewis as follows ....
Mr Dave Lewis CEO TESCO
Dear Sir,
I recently received a parking ticket whilst shopping in your xxx branch.
This was issued by Horizon Parking.
The claim from them is that my vehicle was not parked wholly in a marked bay. The picture evidence they provided clearly showed it WAS wholly parked in a bay. Despite my rejection of their invoice with a false claim, Horizon have ignored this and sent a reminder which threatens Debt Collectors and court action.
Therefore, before this goes to court I require to know from you as follows
"Do you permit your staff in your smaller branches to take pictures on un regulated cameras. Horizon offer a self ticketing system which would enable anyone to take pictures. If your staff do take the pictures are they paid a commission by Horizon.
Is Tesco's paid a commission by Horizon ?
You will understand these are valid points before court.
I look forward to your reply
THE REPLY:
Dear Mr XXX,
Thank you for your email to Dave Lewis, our Chief Executive Officer.
I'm really sorry for the trouble you are having with Horizon Parking over an incident at our XXX store.
I'd like to fully review and investigate this matter on your behalf with Horizon Parking. To do this I would appreciate if you could provide me with a copy of the parking claim, including picture and any other documentation you have been presented with.
I'd be happy for you to either scan this, take a picture and upload to me via email or simply write them down on your reply. I realise a picture won't be available for the last option.
As soon as I hear back from you with this information, I promise to help you as much and as quickly as I can.
Kind regards,
MY REPLY.
Dear Sir,I am sending you 2 emails with attachments just in case your server does not accept multiple attachmentsThe first two attachments show the parking ticket with the vehicleand the reminder notice received recentlyWhen I received the charge, I then went to your car park to check the signs and the terms. Yes, it appears the parking bay used is a delivery area.As one turns off the Road and left in your car park, on that day it was a bright sunny day, the sun being high above your shop and pointing down into the car park, hence the reflection on the tiles in your car park sets up a glare and hence the wording in the bay was not seen, plus after checking later, the words are sideways and not readable plus they are feint.Yes, on my return visit, there is a small sign on the wall to the left stating "polite notice" which is a Tesco's board not that of Horizon.You can easily see the direction of the sun, the shadows in your car park and the shadow behind my carThe parking ticket from Horizon clearly states "The vehicle was not wholly parked in a bay", the pictures shows it was. I said in my previous email that I popped in the shop for cigars, no more than 5 mins.It should be noted that there was no visible sign of Horizon staff upon entry and indeed on exit. One would have thought within such a short time period he/she would have been seen. This why I believe that this was done via self ticketing which Horizon offer ..... but who took that picture ?
ANOTHER EMAIL TO TESCO.1: Picture of vehicle expanded from parking ticketPlease carefully study where the car is located and the shadows from the sun behind the vehicle and other vehiclesYou can see that there is another car length before you bear right2: The second picture Horizon sentClearly the vehicle was not shown, it is different day which is cloudy, with no date and time stamp. It is also wide angle which is helpful as it is clear the lines have been repainted and, the bay has now moved up parallel to to where one turns rightEither this is fact or the picture has been doctored ?It is unclear what the grey box at the bottom of the picture representsAfter a few more emails .... TESCO SAID THIS:
Dear Mr XXX,
Thank you for your reply.
Using the information and attachments you've provided I'm pleased to say that I have arranged for your parking charge to be cancelled.
For your records, here is a copy of the confirmation I received from Horizon Parking;I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled in full and no further action will be taken in regards to this matter."
Unfortunately I was not told who was responsible for taking the photos, however I do know this was not a member of Tesco staff.
I trust you will be pleased with this outcome.
TESCO CAUGHT WITH THEIR TROUSERS DOWN
TESCO DID NOT KNOW WHO TOOK THE PICTURE ??
It certainly was NOT Horizon so how many other clowns operate in Tesco car parks with Horizon cameras and apps. ?????
Government should be carefully looking at firms like Tesco whose staff are self ticketers
I have proof of the above. These are copies of emails currently in my email box
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patient_dream said:Unfortunately I was not told who was responsible for taking the photos, however I do know this was not a member of Tesco staff.
It sickens me to say anything to stick up for Horizon Parking, but I do know for a fact that, in the past, they have had employees who visit Tesco stores for short amounts of time, so there is a remote possibility that this ticket was issued by one of Horizon’s staff.
They used to manage our residential car park until they were fired after repeatedly breaking the law.
In 2019, they used to park an unmarked car partially blocking our driveway. The driver would sit in the car for about an hour every afternoon.
One day I looked through the car window when the driver was unaware of my presence. He was completing a Horizon Parking time sheet with various local sites listed, including the local Tesco, showing the times he was there.
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Well in my case, if it was a Horizon goon, he had the invisiblity cloak on, Tesco staff did not ? The clue is that Tesco said they did not know who took the picture.pinkelephant12 said:patient_dream said:Unfortunately I was not told who was responsible for taking the photos, however I do know this was not a member of Tesco staff.It sickens me to say anything to stick up for Horizon Parking, but I do know for a fact that, in the past, they have had employees who visit Tesco stores for short amounts of time, so there is a remote possibility that this ticket was issued by one of Horizon’s staff.
They used to manage our residential car park until they were fired after repeatedly breaking the law.
In 2019, they used to park an unmarked car partially blocking our driveway. The driver would sit in the car for about an hour every afternoon.
One day I looked through the car window when the driver was unaware of my presence. He was completing a Horizon Parking time sheet with various local sites listed, including the local Tesco, showing the times he was there.
“It's elementary, my dear Watson.”0
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