EV chargers prices

matt_drummer

Public charging isn't so bad.

Let's say I do 10,000 miles pa.

If I charge 10,000 miles at home @ 15p/kWh and do 4 miles/kWh that is £375.00 or 3.75p/mile

If I had to charge 1,000 miles at public charges my costs would be as follows

10,000 miles would cost (9,000/4 @ 15p = £337.50 and 1,000/4 @ 80p = £200.00) in total £537.50 or 5.375p per mile.


It's hardly a deal breaker if you only use public charging on longer journeys.

It's still cheap motoring in terms of fuel cost.


Not so good if you had to do all your mileage using public chargers!


Public chargers are also more expensive because of the charge rate they offer, they are partly a convenience for long journeys.

matt_drummer

Gerry1 said:

[Deleted User] said:

I now have an EV with a 285mile range. Last week, we drove 260 miles and arrived at our night stop with 30 miles remaining on the GoM.

Far too close for comfort !  If the charger is broken or unavailable, good luck in finding a working one within 15 miles, having to wait while it charges (perhaps missing your evening meal or event at the original destination) and dreading that the GOM turns out to have been optimistic.

Presumably you're also having to pay more for that charge compared to a petrol fill up?

The cars plan very well, they never leave it until you have 30 miles left if you are part way through a journey. 

My Tesla gives loads of alternatives, you are no more likely to run out of charge in an ev than you are out of fuel in an ice.

I could argue the opposite at some times if the fuel stations in an area are not 24 hour.

Tesla charges are available 24 hours a day and the car tells you where they are and how many are in use.

The car plans your journey and prepares the battery for the fastest possible charging.

It is best and quickest to charge between 20 and 80% and it takes as little as 15 minutes to charge from 20% to 80% in my car.

Its so easy and stress free in reality.

I would urge anybody to ignore stories from people about what an ev is like to own and drive that haven't actually owned or used one!

Qyburn

matt_drummer said

Just lease one.

I looked at some random leasing deals. Looks like a 3 year lease totals about 40% of the new price. Plus you'd make some interest on the money you would have paid buying outright.  How does that compare with depreciation, what sort of price would you sell a three year old car for as a % of new price?

I've never considered leasing before, but for something likely to go obsolete so quick I can see the attraction.

What happens to the ex-lease two to four year old cars?

dunstonh

If we said that the batteries have 1,500 cycles in them.

That wouldn't be a fair comparison as batteries in PHEVs are designed to endure more cycles than an EV.

EVs may only see 1000 cycles in a lifetime.  A PHEV will see around 4000-8000.  hybrids are around 100,000.  Each type use different types of batteries to reflect the number of expected cycles.    Hybrids have the least usable battery at around 50%,  PHEVs are a little better at around 80% but less than EV.

All that said, I wouldn't be buying a used PHEV (or EV), and my expectation is that the actual value will be less than the guaranteed value in 3/4 years.  So, a hand back is the likely outcome.  

second hand values on any electrical vehicle type are going to drop significantly when battery technology jumps in efficiency and longevity.

My boss's 400hp Jaguar phev pays a fortune in company car tax, I think it is about 20% of the retail value when new.

The p300e is 12% and the P400e and p440e is 8%.

matt_drummer

Qyburn said:

matt_drummer said

Just lease one.

I looked at some random leasing deals. Looks like a 3 year lease totals about 40% of the new price. Plus you'd make some interest on the money you would have paid buying outright.  How does that compare with depreciation, what sort of price would you sell a three year old car for as a % of new price?

I've never considered leasing before, but for something likely to go obsolete so quick I can see the attraction.

What happens to the ex-lease two to four year old cars?

I think traditionally you would expect a three year old car to have depreciated by 50%, sometimes more depending on the brand and type of car.

The ex lease cars get sold at auction. I think they are usually in pretty good condition, it's in the interests of the lessee to look after the car as you get charged for damage!

If you intend to have a new car, I think leasing is the way to go, it may or may not be cheaper than buying outright but you know what you are getting and you are not stuck with something that nobody wants in three or four years time, maybe sensible with evs?

I think the current evs will hold their values quite well, especially when confidence grows in how well they last and, in particular, how well the batteries hold up.

I have seen no drop in range in my Tesla after 9,000 miles and at my current usage I would expect the batteries to last 115 years based on 1,500 full battery cycles.

Buying a two or three year old ev is probably the best option in terms of cost but I think the used market needs to build confidence which I am sure will happen quite quickly.

matt_drummer

dunstonh said:

If we said that the batteries have 1,500 cycles in them.

That wouldn't be a fair comparison as batteries in PHEVs are designed to endure more cycles than an EV.

EVs may only see 1000 cycles in a lifetime.  A PHEV will see around 4000-8000.  hybrids are around 100,000.  Each type use different types of batteries to reflect the number of expected cycles.    Hybrids have the least usable battery at around 50%,  PHEVs are a little better at around 80% but less than EV.

All that said, I wouldn't be buying a used PHEV (or EV), and my expectation is that the actual value will be less than the guaranteed value in 3/4 years.  So, a hand back is the likely outcome.  

second hand values on any electrical vehicle type are going to drop significantly when battery technology jumps in efficiency and longevity.

My boss's 400hp Jaguar phev pays a fortune in company car tax, I think it is about 20% of the retail value when new.

The p300e is 12% and the P400e and p440e is 8%.

You are correct, of course, but it has only dropped from the current tax year.

I am not at work at the moment so I can't check but I am sure when we got it in 2021 it was 18%.

Nevertheless, 8% is still four times higher tan my Tesla which is charged at 2%.


EDIT, just checked and it looks like it was actually 12%, my memory doesn't seem to be so good on this, sorry

Krakkkers

I have never leased a car before as i always pay cash but my last purchase was hard work as the dealer really wanted me to take a finance deal of some kind.

matt_drummer

dunstonh said:

If we said that the batteries have 1,500 cycles in them.

That wouldn't be a fair comparison as batteries in PHEVs are designed to endure more cycles than an EV.

EVs may only see 1000 cycles in a lifetime.  A PHEV will see around 4000-8000.  hybrids are around 100,000.  Each type use different types of batteries to reflect the number of expected cycles.    Hybrids have the least usable battery at around 50%,  PHEVs are a little better at around 80% but less than EV.

I am not aware of any difference in the batteries, they are lithium batteries, I know there are slightly different chemistries but they are fundamentally the same as far as I am aware.

I dare say there are some design differences to protect and attempt to prolong the life of the batteries.

My example was intended to highlight how harshly the batteries in phevs are treated compared to an ev.

I have heard a few people reporting vastly reduced ranges on phevs at four to five years old.

Despite advances in battery technology I would still expect current evs still to have good values. There is nothing wrong with them and will meet the needs of the majority of people for the majority of the time.

The average person drives less than 20 miles a day, a car that has a range of over 200 miles is not really a problem.

An older used ev may not be the main family car that does the 2,000 mile summer holiday journey but they will be perfectly good enough for many people's commutes and regular activities.

matt_drummer

dunstonh said:

All that said, I wouldn't be buying a used PHEV (or EV), and my expectation is that the actual value will be less than the guaranteed value in 3/4 years.  So, a hand back is the likely outcome.  

You are talking about a pcp.

There is no option other than to give the car back with a lease.

With a pcp you can buy it, trade in the equity (if any) or hand it back at the gfv.

There is no option for us to buy our leased Tesla.

matt_drummer

Krakkkers said:

I have never leased a car before as i always pay cash but my last purchase was hard work as the dealer really wanted me to take a finance deal of some kind.

I have audited car dealers before.

They make very little out of new car sales, really it's almost nothing.

They make their money out of other things, bonuses for meeting manufacturer targets, warranties, paint protection, things like that.

The manufacturers bonuses are really important, that is why you see lots of pre registered cars for sale at times. You can quite often get a really good deal near the end of a bonus period when the dealer only needs to sell a few more cars to get the next bonus level up, they'll be really keen to sell you a car at these times and will go a long way to secure your business.

They make lots of money out of finance and that's why they want you to buy on finance rather than buying outright.

Often buying on finance is a good option. I haven't looked for years but there were lots of 0% deals around