EV chargers prices

KRodi

 Can someone please explain why EV charging companies are raising their prices despite the decrease in gas and electricity prices? It's absurd and frustrating. They should lower their prices in line with the energy market. Isn't there any regulation in place to control these companies, like OSGEM?

Petriix

Ultimately it's a loss making industry right now. The government have thrown loads of money at the installation end of things but with zero though to ongoing maintenance and usage costs. 'The market' is trying to establish a business model and find a way of extracting profit.

It doesn't help that current EV owners are a self-selected group mostly from the wealthiest sections of society so they distort the picture. I've been involved in a fair bit of market research and the other respondents seem to heavily prioritise convenience over price. I suspect that a more balanced cross section would lean heavily towards cheaper charging.

Sadly there's zero incentive for competitive pricing and innovation. Yet. For now we just have to avoid public charging as much as possible and mitigate the high prices with things like the Electroverse referral scheme.

mumf

Why should charging an EV be cheaper than lighting and heating my house with the same energy? Petrol for my type of car doesn’t come any cheaper than anyone else’s. 

[Deleted User]

KRodi said:

 Can someone please explain why EV charging companies are raising their prices despite the decrease in gas and electricity prices? It's absurd and frustrating. They should lower their prices in line with the energy market. Isn't there any regulation in place to control these companies, like OSGEM?

The cost of charging an EV includes not only the cost of electricity but the cost of buying; installing and maintaining charge points plus back office functions. These are all subject to inflation. Business energy contracts are a complete mystery to most domestic consumers (including me) but such things as an Ofgem Cap do not apply. 

I also agree with other posters that Ofgem couldn’t make public EV charging a special case given that it is still a minor player in the business energy market. That said, I am surprised that ChargePoint owners are not negotiating energy deals which offer variable pricing throughout the day. Having said that, there would no doubt be massive pushback from business EV owners that need to charge during the 4 to 7pm period.

mmmmikey

mumf said:

Why should charging an EV be cheaper than lighting and heating my house with the same energy? Petrol for my type of car doesn’t come any cheaper than anyone else’s. 

..... because if you use a public charging point you're also paying for the cost of installing and maintaining the equipment needed to deliver the energy.

Think of it like buying a bottle of wine in a restaurant - you'll pay far more than you would at a supermarket because the restaurant price includes the waiter's wages, cost of heating and lighting the restaurant and lots of other charges.

Gerry1

They'll end up cutting their own throats: I noticed that a local charger is 79p/kWh.  Even if you're lucky enough to get 4 miles/kWh that's a marginal cost of almost 20p/mile.  And that's before the government slaps a tax or duty on EV electricity.

In contrast, I get over an average of over 50mpg from my self-charging hybrid, about 13p/mile, and it takes about five minutes to fill up anywhere.

No problems with range anxiety, having to plan longer journeys, chargers that are occupied or out of order etc.

Even if you have a driveway you'll still be hit with expensive charging unless you only make relatively local journeys.  A brochure range of 'up to 250 miles' sounds great, but the real life figure probably falls to around half that on a cold winter's day; you'll have to start looking for a charger before you've ventured 60 miles from home.

Sadly, both pure EVs and the charging networks are still in their infancy.

Scot_39

Don't public chargers already carry 20% vat  ?

Rather than 5% - basically a tax on anyone without a driveway.

And the Transport Select Committee - didn't it recommed road pricing to replace fuel duty for at least EVs ?

matt_drummer

Gerry1 said:

They'll end up cutting their own throats: I noticed that a local charger is 79p/kWh.  Even if you're lucky enough to get 4 miles/kWh that's a marginal cost of almost 20p/mile.  And that's before the government slaps a tax or duty on EV electricity.

In contrast, I get over an average of over 50mpg from my self-charging hybrid, about 13p/mile, and it takes about five minutes to fill up anywhere.

No problems with range anxiety, having to plan longer journeys, chargers that are occupied or out of order etc.

Even if you have a driveway you'll still be hit with expensive charging unless you only make relatively local journeys.  A brochure range of 'up to 250 miles' sounds great, but the real life figure probably falls to around half that on a cold winter's day; you'll have to start looking for a charger before you've ventured 60 miles from home.

Sadly, both pure EVs and the charging networks are still in their infancy.

The range on my Tesla Model 3 doesn't drop that much in the winter, maybe 10 to 15%, it is certainly not halved.

Heating is via a heatpump and is very efficient and uses very little electricity, especially on longer journeys as most of the electricity is used heating the cabin from cold.

The battery temperature is well controlled and aids performance in the winter.

In two years I have averaged 4.25 miles per kWh and at this time of year I get over 5 miles per kWh.

It costs on average around 3.5 pence per mile charging at 15p/kWh.

If some of my charging had to be done in public it has minimal impact on the overall cost, it's still really cheap to run.

Teslas are not in their infancy, they work really well.

I appreciate that not all cars are Teslas and not everybody wants or can afford to buy one, but it shows what is possible even today.

MattMattMattUK

Gerry1 said:

They'll end up cutting their own throats: I noticed that a local charger is 79p/kWh.  Even if you're lucky enough to get 4 miles/kWh that's a marginal cost of almost 20p/mile.  And that's before the government slaps a tax or duty on EV electricity.

In contrast, I get over an average of over 50mpg from my self-charging hybrid, about 13p/mile, and it takes about five minutes to fill up anywhere.

No problems with range anxiety, having to plan longer journeys, chargers that are occupied or out of order etc.

Even if you have a driveway you'll still be hit with expensive charging unless you only make relatively local journeys.  A brochure range of 'up to 250 miles' sounds great, but the real life figure probably falls to around half that on a cold winter's day; you'll have to start looking for a charger before you've ventured 60 miles from home.

Sadly, both pure EVs and the charging networks are still in their infancy.

I think it really depends on the EV. I borrowed a Tesla Model 3 Long Range for ten days, I am thinking of buying one and he said to borrow his whilst on holiday, so got insurance and gave it a go. I would have got around 305-310 miles out of a full charge whilst driving normally, although I did not run it down to zero. With standard 30p per kWh pricing and allowing for 10% losses during charging that works out at around 8.5p per mile, although admittedly it would use more if I was pushing it harder and I imagine that in winter that would drop off further. Although at the 79p/kWh public charger cost that increases to 22.3p per mile which is a considerable jump and exceeds what I get out of my current petrol Golf which with my normal driving pattern is around 15p per mile, although on long motorway journeys can drop down to 12.4p per mile. With EV tariffs that cost might drop significantly, at the current 7.5p per kWh from Octopus that comes down to 2.2p/kWh, although with the increased cost of daytime electricity usage at home. 

My friend also has an energy metering charging cable, so if he goes to visit friends or family he can charge at their home and then he transfers them the cost of the electricity, though I know not everyone will have that option. 

born_again

Gerry1 said:

They'll end up cutting their own throats: I noticed that a local charger is 79p/kWh.  Even if you're lucky enough to get 4 miles/kWh that's a marginal cost of almost 20p/mile.  And that's before the government slaps a tax or duty on EV electricity.

In contrast, I get over an average of over 50mpg from my self-charging hybrid, about 13p/mile, and it takes about five minutes to fill up anywhere.

No problems with range anxiety, having to plan longer journeys, chargers that are occupied or out of order etc.

Even if you have a driveway you'll still be hit with expensive charging unless you only make relatively local journeys.  A brochure range of 'up to 250 miles' sounds great, but the real life figure probably falls to around half that on a cold winter's day; you'll have to start looking for a charger before you've ventured 60 miles from home.

Sadly, both pure EVs and the charging networks are still in their infancy.

That includes the VAT.

EV owners have had a well subsidised entry into their cars, with gov funded reduction of purchase price, free or cheaper home chargers.
As they become more mainstream, they now have to start paying their way to cover the reduction in income from ICE.

dunstonh

I was sceptical about EVs.  Not long term but short term.  However, I bought my wife a PHEV and I have been pleasantly surprised.  I now wish I bought an EV.   Although realistically, 4 months after taking delivery, we still haven't had the pod point installed.  That is happening next week.  So, had we gone straight to EV, it would have been virtually unusable for 4 months.    The delay was upgrading to a 100amp fuse, getting meter tails upgraded and other wiring changed.  This involved our electrical, the electricity supplier and UKPN.  We got away with it with a PHEV as the granny charger would take it from empty to full in just under 7 hours.  So, that fitted ok with economy 7.

With BMW now offering just under 400 miles range on EVs, along with the cost of EVs falling, and electricity at 8p kWh, it is starting to look viable for me.     However, the cost of away-from-home charging is far too high to make it viable for those that do not have their own charging supplies or need to rely on remote chargers.   It's not really viable for those on single tariff either.    Electricity needs to be around 25p kWh or cheaper to beat petrol.

My friend also has an energy metering charging cable, so if he goes to visit friends or family he can charge at their home and then he transfers them the cost of the electricity, though I know not everyone will have that option. 

Everyone has that option.  It's whether they choose to buy a cable with that or not.  However, granny chargers can only draw up to 3kWh,     For 7 hours charging thats about 35 miles.