Gas Meter Still Increasing Whilst Gas Isolated (Siemens/Landis+Gyr E6S)

Zandoni

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Zandoni said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Because people whinge whenever it's suggested that they get a new meter.  There have even been people saying things like "my meter is making funny noises and I have to hit it to make it work, but nobody can force me to get a smart meter".

The overall minimum hassle is that most people don't care, and those that do can have the arguments.

The articles also say things like "could be millions of meters", when all they actually know is that it is somewhere between two and millions.

I’ve never come across a meter the you have to hit to make it work, there are many of the old diaphragm meters that make a noise and there are many that register happily without passing gas, a whole lot more than two.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6451609/old-electricity-meter-humming/p1

It was an electricity meter thread that I was referring to.

The problem with "many" is that it doesn't help work out a proportionate response.  If it's 10,000 then it can be argued that case-by-case when reported is proportional.  If it's 10,000,000 then a recall/replacement programme would be more sensible.  Given that we don't reliably know how many of these meters were installed, or how many of them have been replaced, we don't know the actual scale.

More to the point they should know how many there are installed.

MeteredOut

CSI_Yorkshire said:

The problem with "many" is that it doesn't help work out a proportionate response.  If it's 10,000 then it can be argued that case-by-case when reported is proportional.  If it's 10,000,000 then a recall/replacement programme would be more sensible.  Given that we don't reliably know how many of these meters were installed, or how many of them have been replaced, we don't know the actual scale.

Given that the energy companies do everything they can to deny a problem even exists, I doubt we'll ever know the scale. The gatekeeping of customers away from those that even have a basic understanding of their business is staggering, so you end up with obfuscation and disingenuos comments, to the point where you want to just give up. Some personal examples

• I was told by EDF that I would have to book and pay for an electrician to check my boiler before they would investigate further. After some basic education on the obvious error,  this was then changed to me having to book a gas engineer before they would investigate further. Of course I refused and only the immediate threat of the ombudsman allow me to progress past that
• I was assured there was no issue with the gas meter because it was only incrementing in partial units, and because only full units are billed, it was not costing me anything. No matter how many times I tried to explain why this was patently wrong, the EDF customer service person was adamant there was no fault.
• I was told that the meter could still increase by (what turned out to be) kWh of energy even when isolated from the gas. I provided evidence of both the meter increasing, and it not increasing, for periods of time when my boiler was turned off.
• I was offered a bill credit if i would confirm, in writing, that there was no issue with the meter (I refused).
• I was told there was no issue with the meter because the 7 consecutive days of readings they asked for did not indicate excessive use, despite me telling them that the issue was intermittent and was not significant during those 7 days. I had provided them with other evidence, but because it was not 7 consecutive days, they could not accept it.

Now that I have more concrete evidence of the issue (this was difficult to capture over the winter as I could just just turn off my boiler for a whole day), I'll be ensuring the issue gets resolved. I suspect it will end up at the obudsman,

MeteredOut

DPatroller said:

I am going through an extremely similar experience with my Siemens E6 Meter (1998 vintage). It looks identical except for the branding. I have been reading it daily for almost 6 months to try to understand very excessive and expensive usage in 2021 and 2022. After months of frustratingly accurate looking readings it started to misbehave slightly. Once in April, and then once in May - both on hot days. It stole another few cubic metres in early June and we raised an official complaint to SO Energy. Over the last 5 days however it has shown its true colours. The final letter on the readout had been an 'F' all through to 5th June. Since then it has been  'C'   'b' and 'd' and currently back to 'C' just like MeteredOut. It has been recording at up to 10 cubic metres an hour and turning the gas supply off to the meter makes no difference.  It has added 650 cubic metres in 5 days (and counting). I have lots of video and photographic and video evidence and am awaiting response from SO Energy. With the Guardian article and other evidence from many years ago, how on earth could this scandal have been allowed to continue?              

650 m3 of gas! That's over 7000 kWh for those 5 days. I wonder if SO Energy will tell you its just the boiler pulling the gas through and its sitting in the pipes leading up to your boiler

I've never witnessed an F on my meter display - I feel a bit left out now

MeteredOut

EDF have today said that the during the discussions I had them with them relating to the meter issues last year that

"...we were unable to book an OFMAT test previously due to the meter being installed by a Meter Asset Manager (MAM) that no longer operated, and as such we are unable to ask another MAM to carry out the work... "

Does that make sense to anyone or I am being fed BS again? If this was the issue previously, does that mean it will likely be the same thing going forward? They are still awaiting the gas appointments team confirming whether they can book in the OFMAT.

[Deleted User]

MeteredOut said:

EDF have today said that the during the discussions I had them with them relating to the meter issues last year that

"...we were unable to book an OFMAT test previously due to the meter being installed by a Meter Asset Manager (MAM) that no longer operated, and as such we are unable to ask another MAM to carry out the work... "

Does that make sense to anyone or I am being fed BS again? If this was the issue previously, does that mean it will likely be the same thing going forward? They are still awaiting the gas appointments team confirming whether they can book in the OFMAT.

You could email this address for clarification:

If you have a specific enquiry regarding the accuracy of your gas and/or electricity meter, please email OPSS.enquiries@beis.gov.uk

MarzipanCrumble

Could I suggest the obvious?  Gas leak??

So I have been diagnosed with this.  Circumstances are that gas supply in road was being updated to 'plastic tube to replace corrodable metal'.  All householders were also being similarly tubed if not already done.  Because I had not I was plasticised too.  Found that internally my meter was connected to lead piping which disappeared into house walls.  

Leaking detected when reconnected. 

So maybe worth checking what your meter is connected to pipewise?  When you think it is faulty maybe it is actually leaking - and no, at no point did I smell gas.  I suspect dissipiating through leaky 1928 house walls!  But also my gas bills (meter read every month and submitted) were not excessive for a 4 bed detached.)

MeteredOut

MarzipanCrumble said:

<snip>

So maybe worth checking what your meter is connected to pipewise?  When you think it is faulty maybe it is actually leaking - and no, at no point did I smell gas.  I suspect dissipiating through leaky 1928 house walls!  But also my gas bills (meter read every month and submitted) were not excessive for a 4 bed detached.)

Definitely a valid thought, but...

• For the volume of gas being "used", I'm pretty sure I'd smell it
• The domestic side pipework is all accessible, copper and has no indication of any issue
• I have recorded periods of time where no appliance was consuming gas and the meter reading stayed static. Unless the leak is somehow intermittent, I suggest that backs up my assertion that the meter is the issue.
• But probably most pertinent, the meter is isolated from the gas, so is no gas getting through to the domestic pipework to actually leak, and any leak on the grid side would not make it into the meter for it to record.
  

QrizB

MeteredOut said:

Does that make sense to anyone or I am being fed BS again?

It makes no sense.

EDF are your gas supplier and are obliged to supply you with an accurate meter.

Unless you get some sense from them very soon, you should consider escalating this to a formal complaint and then (if needed) to the Ombudsman.

MeteredOut

QrizB said:

MeteredOut said:

Does that make sense to anyone or I am being fed BS again?

It makes no sense.

EDF are your gas supplier and are obliged to supply you with an accurate meter.

Unless you get some sense from them very soon, you should consider escalating this to a formal complaint and then (if needed) to the Ombudsman.

It's already at a formal complaint. EDF re-opened the one I had raised last year, which I agreed could be closed over the winter months because the issue seemingly went away and/or I could not measure it accurately since I needed our heating on. At that time, I accepted a bill credit based on what I estimated I had been overcharged. But, that was on the understanding I would contact them again if the issue arose again.

I was very nicely asked last week to try to let them resolve it and not to escalate things to the ombudsman yet, to which I agreed, but made it clear that I wanted an OFMAT. That has preliminarily been scheduled for early July, but needs to appointments team to confirm.

I sent them another video today, again showing the meter increasing even when isolated from the gas. It had been isolated for hours beforehand, so I was providing them with proof that their "gas getting pulled through for up to 30 minutes" theory was a load of BS.

At this time, its all about me collating the evidence for when, I suspect, it gets to the ombudsman. I truly believe that EDF internal processes deliberately do not allow those who have the competency levels to resolve these more complex issue to get involved without that level of escalation.

FreeBear

I wonder how much it would cost for a Gas Safe registered engineer to fit a meter that you purchased in line with the existing meter. A G4 diaphragm meter can be had for under £50, so technical reason why one couldn't be fitted.