Meter Change

GoneWestWoman

No, not said in jest.  Perfectly serious about it!

 I’m not in a position to move anyway so I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.  In the meantime I’ll continue scanning the energy companies looking for something that may work.

the Ombudsman did tell Octopus Energy that they will have to source an E10 meter and put it in but they refused saying that none are being built and they couldn’t force someone to make one just for me.  Reasonable to an extent but as the information provided by them at the very beginning was their error I would have hoped that they would come to a compromise and put me on their Cosy tariff which would have worked.  But I can’t force them to do it so I continue to look for alternatives.

In the Landlord’s defence the system they put in DID work for the situation and I cannot blame them for not wanting to change it for an air source pump due to the cost.  It was not their fault that Octopus made the error, nor was it mine, but Octopus have just washed their hands of it (apart from being forced to pay me compensation for the additional costs I incurred).  

Chrysalis

Its obviously technically possible, smart meters work on Agile which has 48 variable rates per day.

The supplier could e.g. just take hourly readings and update their billing platform to process the data correctly, so to me this is a supplier IT competency problem not a smart meter problem, seems they just got used to do the meter doing all the work for them.

To clarify, take hourly readings from the meter automatically.  Lookup the time of day, if it falls in peak usage charge at X unit rate for that hour usage, if it falls in off peak charge at Y unit for that hour usage, they just need to update their billing platform.

Chrysalis

matt_drummer said:

AnnieRichards said:

I simply can't understand why Octopus Energy won't allow us to join their Cosy Tariff which gives 2 cheap rates of electricity per day with a higher rate during Peak hours - 4-7pm,  which could work for those of us unable to replace our systems.  

That is because it is for owners of heat pumps.

Heat pumps are energy efficient, three or more times efficient than the heating system fitted in your home.

The tariff fits with the ethos of Octopus Energy.

They are trying to promote and encourage energy efficiency and design their tariffs to suit such technologies.

That is why they are only available to customers with the appropriate technology.

I know it is not your fault, it is the fault of your landlord, but your heating system is the most energy inefficient you can get and their use should be discouraged.



I hope I have that right that your landlord has fitted a wet electric heating system?

This is one of the flaws of Octopus, I can understand them designing tariffs to be marketed as suitable for certain technologies.

But there shouldnt be a need to draw a hard line and say you must own a heat pump to use this tariff. There can be many other situations where such a tariff can prove useful to someone.

The only reason I can think of such a strict requirement is if they are getting rebates from companies that manufacture said products and they dont want to be rebating customers not using those products. Indeed reading this link does show they have a vested interest in the heat pump installation market space.

https://octopus.energy/cosy/

[Deleted User]

But there shouldnt be a need to draw a hard line and say you must own a heat pump to use this tariff. There can be many other situations where such a tariff can prove useful to someone.

The hardline is drawn because Octopus is a heat pump designer; manufacturer and installer. It purchased RED last year:

https://www.current-news.co.uk/octopus-energy-acquires-heat-pump-manufacturer-red-in-move-to-create-model-t-moment-for-sector/

The Octopus CEO has long said that it believes that heat pumps are the future. Similarly, Octopus offers tariffs which are restricted to EV owners. One of its subsidiaries sells/leases EVs. Intelligent Flux is a tariff targeted at GivEnergy battery owners: Octopus controls battery charging at the best times for the Grid.

matt_drummer

Chrysalis said:

matt_drummer said:

AnnieRichards said:

I simply can't understand why Octopus Energy won't allow us to join their Cosy Tariff which gives 2 cheap rates of electricity per day with a higher rate during Peak hours - 4-7pm,  which could work for those of us unable to replace our systems.  

That is because it is for owners of heat pumps.

Heat pumps are energy efficient, three or more times efficient than the heating system fitted in your home.

The tariff fits with the ethos of Octopus Energy.

They are trying to promote and encourage energy efficiency and design their tariffs to suit such technologies.

That is why they are only available to customers with the appropriate technology.

I know it is not your fault, it is the fault of your landlord, but your heating system is the most energy inefficient you can get and their use should be discouraged.



I hope I have that right that your landlord has fitted a wet electric heating system?

This is one of the flaws of Octopus, I can understand them designing tariffs to be marketed as suitable for certain technologies.

But there shouldnt be a need to draw a hard line and say you must own a heat pump to use this tariff. There can be many other situations where such a tariff can prove useful to someone.

The only reason I can think of such a strict requirement is if they are getting rebates from companies that manufacture said products and they dont want to be rebating customers not using those products. Indeed reading this link does show they have a vested interest in the heat pump installation market space.

https://octopus.energy/cosy/

What was Economy 10?

Who was that aimed at and who was it offered to?

I don't recall ever being offered such a tariff.

matt_drummer

I don't even think the Octopus Cosy tariff is suitable for heat pump owners.

I don't know what anybody with a heat pump thinks?

I have a heat pump and won't be using it as I have lots of battery storage.

But even without my batteries I don't think it works.

Heat pumps are most efficient when run at the lowest flow temperature necessary to heat the home and should run 24 hours a day to be most efficient.

Heat pumps are not designed to run for short periods at higher temperatures as a boost.



There must be a better tariff for @AnnieRichards?

Maybe something like Agile or Tracker?

[Deleted User]

matt_drummer said:

I don't even think the Octopus Cosy tariff is suitable for heat pump owners.

I don't know what anybody with a heat pump thinks?

I have a heat pump and won't be using it as I have lots of battery storage.

But even without my batteries I don't think it works.

Heat pumps are most efficient when run at the lowest flow temperature necessary to heat the home and should run 24 hours a day to be most efficient.

Heat pumps are not designed to run for short periods at higher temperatures as a boost.



There must be a better tariff for @AnnieRichards?

Maybe something like Agile or Tracker?

It is a beta tariff. If there is little heat pump owner take up I would expect Octopus to review/adjust it or just withdraw it from sale.

Spoonie_Turtle

matt_drummer said:

Chrysalis said:

matt_drummer said:

AnnieRichards said:

I simply can't understand why Octopus Energy won't allow us to join their Cosy Tariff which gives 2 cheap rates of electricity per day with a higher rate during Peak hours - 4-7pm,  which could work for those of us unable to replace our systems.  

That is because it is for owners of heat pumps.

Heat pumps are energy efficient, three or more times efficient than the heating system fitted in your home.

The tariff fits with the ethos of Octopus Energy.

They are trying to promote and encourage energy efficiency and design their tariffs to suit such technologies.

That is why they are only available to customers with the appropriate technology.

I know it is not your fault, it is the fault of your landlord, but your heating system is the most energy inefficient you can get and their use should be discouraged.



I hope I have that right that your landlord has fitted a wet electric heating system?

This is one of the flaws of Octopus, I can understand them designing tariffs to be marketed as suitable for certain technologies.

But there shouldnt be a need to draw a hard line and say you must own a heat pump to use this tariff. There can be many other situations where such a tariff can prove useful to someone.

The only reason I can think of such a strict requirement is if they are getting rebates from companies that manufacture said products and they dont want to be rebating customers not using those products. Indeed reading this link does show they have a vested interest in the heat pump installation market space.

https://octopus.energy/cosy/

What was Economy 10?

Who was that aimed at and who was it offered to?

I don't recall ever being offered such a tariff.

Economy 10 is like Economy 7, but with 10 off-peak hours instead of 7, and spread over (usually) 2 or 3 slots instead of all overnight.  It's my understanding that its main aim was people with storage heaters that weren't adequate for Economy 7 and needed an extra daytime boost.  There are several different variants of that kind of tariff in Scotland, being colder up there for longer.

Economy 10 required complex metering before smart meters; smart meters could be fine doing it but most suppliers stopped supporting it before smart meters were widespread and it's not been a tariff offered for years and years (only available to legacy customers or people moving into homes already on Economy 10 and having to open a new account with the supplier).

matt_drummer

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Economy 10 is like Economy 7, but with 10 off-peak hours instead of 7, and spread over (usually) 2 or 3 slots instead of all overnight.  It's my understanding that its main aim was people with storage heaters that weren't adequate for Economy 7 and needed an extra daytime boost.  There are several different variants of that kind of tariff in Scotland, being colder up there for longer.

Economy 10 required complex metering before smart meters; smart meters could be fine doing it but most suppliers stopped supporting it before smart meters were widespread and it's not been a tariff offered for years and years (only available to legacy customers or people moving into homes already on Economy 10 and having to open a new account with the supplier).

OK, so it was for a particular set of circumstances and wasn't available to all customers even if it may have suited them.

A bit like Cosy Octopus and EV tariffs, available to customers in a particular circumstance and not available to everybody even though they may suit some customers who do not fit the profile.

GoneWestWoman

matt_drummer said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Economy 10 is like Economy 7, but with 10 off-peak hours instead of 7, and spread over (usually) 2 or 3 slots instead of all overnight.  It's my understanding that its main aim was people with storage heaters that weren't adequate for Economy 7 and needed an extra daytime boost.  There are several different variants of that kind of tariff in Scotland, being colder up there for longer.

Economy 10 required complex metering before smart meters; smart meters could be fine doing it but most suppliers stopped supporting it before smart meters were widespread and it's not been a tariff offered for years and years (only available to legacy customers or people moving into homes already on Economy 10 and having to open a new account with the supplier).

OK, so it was for a particular set of circumstances and wasn't available to all customers even if it may have suited them.

A bit like Cosy Octopus and EV tariffs, available to customers in a particular circumstance and not available to everybody even though they may suit some customers who do not fit the profile.

The issue is that the Customers who currently have the Economy 10 are having their tariffs cancelled and replaced with tariffs that do not work with their existing heating systems.  In my case an electric boiler (8 years old) with a normal wet radiator system.  Therefore not storage heaters.  E7 works if you have storage heaters and is useless if you don’t.

If the reason, as frequently quoted, is to encourage us to swap our energy use out of the peak periods to help stop the planet overheating etc etc etc and heat pumps are the latest great idea then why is no one offering the equivalent of the existing E10 tariff?  In fact the E10 tariff only used power when most people don’t want it therefore I cannot see
any reason for the removal of it.  Nor indeed is there a suitable replacement.  

We are a minority BUT there are regulations in place to protect “complex metering” which (in my case) Octopus were allowed to completely side step without OFGEM/Ombudsman/Parliament/Citizens Advice/legal representation/media being willing to help me challenge!

Unfortunately it is going to take many more of us to join together and make someone, somewhere actually take any notice.

My original posing is lengthy and I am still fighting, out of principle, to try and get someone to listen to the injustice foisted upon those of us who don’t have the means of replacing a whole heating system.  There is absolutely no reason for the SMETS2 meters to work on a tariff which matches the existing E10. They just refuse to write one therefore forcing us to pay much more than Customers who are lucky enough to have an alternative.

As far as I’m concerned the excuse of helping the planet is smoke and mirrors.  E10 does work for many and still can with a SMETS2 meter.  My ANNUAL use (before last winter’s exceptional pricing) for a 2 bedroom terraced house with single glazing (it’s listed so has single glazing) was averaging £650.  Now I can’t afford to heat my home at all.  It’s been shown time and again that Octopus can write any tariff they want, they just choose not to in this case.