Changing unused 'council owned' gate?

gazfocus

theoretica said:

The gate doesn't look hugely old (is it there in the oldest streetview?) which rather counts against it being forgotten and abandoned.

You know, I never even thought to check 

Just checked and the current street view is from September 2022. The previous street view dated October 2012 and October 2009 don't have it and actually looks much nicer without it haha.

MalMonroe

Hi, my starting point would be the neighbours. I'd knock on their door and ask them if they know who owns the gate and if it is the council, would they mind if you requested permission to replace it with something prettier, at your own expense. You offering to do such a thing would be bound to make you popular, in my humble opinion.

Then I'd contact the council to confirm, or otherwise, the ownership of the gate and land. If it's them, all well and good, you can ask them - and you'll probably have to confirm in writing too and they can either write back and say 'yay' or 'nay'. Then you'll have proof if they come back later and ask where their original gate's gone. If it's not them, similar thing. Polite letter requesting permission to improve. (Who in their right mind would refuse?)(Not me.)

Where I live, the council is always more than happy to let people spend their own money on prettifying council-owned land/property anyway so I don't agree with Section 62, above. (Gates - and all other equipment our council supplies for that matter, are exceptionally inferior! The cheapest they can source.) In my experience with councils (well, my local one, that is!) they are more than happy to delegate and couldn't really care less about maintenance/upkeep of anything. Until a matter is brought to their attention they are happy to be left alone to ruminate. Or whatever it is that councils do these days. 

Just ask. You're probably going to have to make contact with the neighbours at some point anyway, so it may as well be before rather than after you move in - take them a potted plant/some fancy chocolates or something and say 'hi, we are going to be moving in next door and would just like to ask about  . . . .'.  Approaching neighbours and being friendly has always worked well for me. Most people are happy to help, or give information if they know anything.

(Even if they say it's not the council, I would definitely double-check that with the council.)

I hope that's helpful. 'You can but try.' Is one motto I like. 

gazfocus

Thanks for your input @MalMonroe

Going with the suggestion of it being a 'Gated Alleyway', I've just looked on the council website and it does say they do install Alley gates to help tackle 'Domestic burglary, Drug-related crime, Antisocial behaviour, Fly-tipping, Dog fouling, etc'. 

It appears there is an application process and then keys distributed to the houses that are entitled to them (which I would think would be ourselves and the neighbour only, but will speak to the neighbour and ask). 

The council website says to contact the local councillor for the area to apply for a gate so I've sent him a quick email to ask about the likelihood of getting permission to change the gate at my expense. If he says 'no chance' then fair enough and no need to bother the neighbour with it, but if he says it's a possibility, it's definitely a conflab worth having.

twopenny

There are two such in my area. One was a random plot and the best information + phone number was asking some council workers clearing an area around the church. They were more useful than anyone.
Just a thought.

Section62

gazfocus said:

The council website says to contact the local councillor for the area to apply for a gate so I've sent him a quick email to ask about the likelihood of getting permission to change the gate at my expense. If he says 'no chance' then fair enough and no need to bother the neighbour with it, but if he says it's a possibility, it's definitely a conflab worth having.

From the plan I suspect there's a good chance the neighbour has moved their fence to incorporate what was a shared accessway into their own garden.

The councillor can't make the decision about the gate, but can pass the enquiry onto the right department for them to look into it.

ashe

We had these in our old road. They were put in to prevent crime and anti social behaviour. 

Section62

MalMonroe said:

Where I live, the council is always more than happy to let people spend their own money on prettifying council-owned land/property anyway so I don't agree with Section 62, above. (Gates - and all other equipment our council supplies for that matter, are exceptionally inferior! The cheapest they can source.) In my experience with councils (well, my local one, that is!) they are more than happy to delegate and couldn't really care less about maintenance/upkeep of anything. Until a matter is brought to their attention they are happy to be left alone to ruminate. Or whatever it is that councils do these days. 

If this is a "gated alleyway" then the particular issue here is the land/property doesn't belong to the council.

The council would have been exercising a specific legal power (in a greyish legal area), effectively acting on behalf of the absent landowner.  The council would be going out on a very long limb (ultra vires) if they authorised a resident to install their own gate in lieu of the one the council placed there using the specific legal power they have.

This is a very different situation to one where the council gives permission to local residents to prettify public realm which is the council's property.

Bear in mind councils normally only get involved in a gated alleyway situtaion if there is some kind of conflict between the people who have a right to use the alleyway.  If the residents were in harmony they could sort something out themselves without the council needing to get involved.

gazfocus

Section62 said:

MalMonroe said:

Where I live, the council is always more than happy to let people spend their own money on prettifying council-owned land/property anyway so I don't agree with Section 62, above. (Gates - and all other equipment our council supplies for that matter, are exceptionally inferior! The cheapest they can source.) In my experience with councils (well, my local one, that is!) they are more than happy to delegate and couldn't really care less about maintenance/upkeep of anything. Until a matter is brought to their attention they are happy to be left alone to ruminate. Or whatever it is that councils do these days. 

If this is a "gated alleyway" then the particular issue here is the land/property doesn't belong to the council.

The council would have been exercising a specific legal power (in a greyish legal area), effectively acting on behalf of the absent landowner.  The council would be going out on a very long limb (ultra vires) if they authorised a resident to install their own gate in lieu of the one the council placed there using the specific legal power they have.

This is a very different situation to one where the council gives permission to local residents to prettify public realm which is the council's property.

Bear in mind councils normally only get involved in a gated alleyway situtaion if there is some kind of conflict between the people who have a right to use the alleyway.  If the residents were in harmony they could sort something out themselves without the council needing to get involved.

I think the original issue may have been that the family that own the house we are buying have only ever used the house as a holiday home, so haven’t been there regularly and as such might have proven difficult to contact with regards to needing to gate the alleyway, which would then make sense in the council acting as an independent party. 

I guess the question then would be, once an application by the resident(s) to put a gate on an alleyway that the council do not own, is there a provision to reverse this and say to the council ‘thanks but no thanks’ especially if the land ultimately isn’t theirs?

gazfocus

Section62 said:

gazfocus said:

The council website says to contact the local councillor for the area to apply for a gate so I've sent him a quick email to ask about the likelihood of getting permission to change the gate at my expense. If he says 'no chance' then fair enough and no need to bother the neighbour with it, but if he says it's a possibility, it's definitely a conflab worth having.

From the plan I suspect there's a good chance the neighbour has moved their fence to incorporate what was a shared accessway into their own garden.

The councillor can't make the decision about the gate, but can pass the enquiry onto the right department for them to look into it.

This is something we are going to look at when we go back for another viewing (my mum wants to have a nosey at the house haha). It looks from Google earth that the neighbour no longer has a fence on that side of his garden but can’t really tell, so intend to go have a proper look. 

Section62

gazfocus said:

I guess the question then would be, once an application by the resident(s) to put a gate on an alleyway that the council do not own, is there a provision to reverse this and say to the council ‘thanks but no thanks’ especially if the land ultimately isn’t theirs?

The council could remove the gate if they deem there is no longer a need for it, or if the original landowner appears and asks them to remove it.

If all the residents who have a right to use the path agreed they didn't want the gate any more then the council may well deem it unnecessary and remove it, but if one wanted it kept then they are likely to have to go with the minority view.

If I've guessed right and the alleyway is a RoW that several of the neighbours have the benefit of (at least in theory) then you may have a real headache dealing with it.  Giving up a RoW usually means having your deeds altered, and in the case of properties with a mortgage, the mortgage company would have to agree as well.  If the owner of the land can't be traced then there is nobody to act on their behalf to accept the giving up of the RoW.  Legally it can be messy... hence the fudge of people simply deciding not to use the RoW and allowing the council to gate it off.