Changing unused 'council owned' gate?

casper_gutman

Mojisola said:

gazfocus said:

It does ring alarm bells which is why I’ve said the estate agent has taken the responsibility to find out what’s happening with the neighbour. 

To be blunt, if the neighbour thinks they can assume ownership of that land, they’ve got another thing coming, but I feel I’m limited in what I can do until I own the house. 

Moving in and instantly starting a feud with your neighbour is a crazy idea.

I agree. If I loved the house in all other respects - and given that I don't particularly mind the gate - I wouldn't be looking to start a fight with the neighbour. 

All I can really see that they've done so far is to remove the side wall from their front garden so they can drive across the front part of the alleyway to access their property - presumably fine, as they likely have a right of way over the land - and buy in some gravel. Perhaps they're planning to tidy up the area given that it's a bit of an eyesore at present. Good for them.

I would, however, be looking to behave in a manner consistent with the reality that the former alleyway is a common space and access way for both properties. I might be inclined, for example, to spend a few hours weeding and generally tidying it up. If the neighbour's intentions are good they'll appreciate you taking an interest, and if they were planning to somehow try to claim the space as their own, you'll be putting a marker down in a way they can't reasonably object to.

I'd also find a sensible reason to use the access way - storing bikes/bins in my back garden, or backing my car in there to unload supplies for the garden. That sort of thing would hopefully make it clear to the neighbour that they wouldn't be able to just assume ownership of it. For instance, they would realise that if they started parking a car at the side of their house, you'd need to keep asking them to move it so you could make legitimate use of the access route.

gazfocus

ashe said:

Red flags all over with this 

potential problem neighbour 

potential gate which you hate 

the reason why the gate was out there in the first place  


are you totally smitten with it? 

To be honest, I think the gate is ugly but it’s not a reason to not buy the house - I discussed with the EA today that I’d spoken to the council and he said he didn’t blame me but ultimately if the gate has to stay long term, so be it. 

To answer your question though, yes we are smitten with the house. Everything else with the house is perfect so in all honesty, we would buy it either way, I’m just not the sort of person to be walked over so if the land is ‘shared’ we either divide it between the two gardens or it stays shared. 

gazfocus

Just to add, looking back on Rightmove Sold Prices, the neighbour bought the house with their driveway already in place so didn’t buy it and then remove the dividing wall etc. I also noticed this morning that there is no dropped kerb to get onto the neighbours driveway…

WhiskersTheWonderCat

gazfocus said:

Why don't you just build up the height of the wall on your boundary. Or plant a tall bush. Then you won't really even see the gate from your property. Asking the council to remove the gate seems like a terrible idea, seeing as the gate was placed to keep undesirables from trespassing down there. 

gazfocus

WhiskersTheWonderCat said:

I gazfocus said:

Why don't you just build up the height of the wall on your boundary. Or plant a tall bush. Then you won't really even see the gate from your property. Asking the council to remove the gate seems like a terrible idea, seeing as the gate was placed to keep undesirables from trespassing down there. 

I would assume that may need planning with it being the front of the house. 

The idea was to replace the gate with a nicer gate, not remove it entirely. 

ThisIsWeird

...and raising that wall would also risk sending a message that you had little interest in that space, so any such wall would likely need to be accompanied with explicit instructions to the neighbour to not assume it's now largely theirs.

Gaz, good for you for being assertive (hopefully delivered in a measured, personable, way as it, gulp, is on here ).

You seem to have it clear in your head what is, and what isn't going to be ok. And any grey areas will be clarified further, before or after moving in. Eg, at the moment, you seemingly 'don't mind' the idea of the neighb using that space in order to access parking in front of their property (if they are), but would raise objections should they start parking on the communal/shared part.

Your plan to introduce yourself and have a friendly chat before purchase is a good one. They will understand the literal way of the land, and will not be 'wondering' what their new neighb is like, or what their approach will be. And you should also get a clear sense of the neighb's attitude/intentions towards that space. (And you'll also get a sense whether they are open honest folk, or chancers )

Easy to broach, too. After a nice 'howdie do', a casual Q thrown in on their opinion of the "council's" gate, and if they had thoughts on how to beautify it; "I know the council won't be happy if we touch it, but perhaps a nice wooden or metal gate in front of it?" IE, making it clear you are discussing 'shared' property, and not theirs. How they respond will speak volumes. Any hint by them of entitlement can then be addressed by a 'surprised' "Oh, we've looked into this already - prrrruuudddy sure it's shared/communal...", delivered with a disparaging Gaz stare.

On that note, why not a nice timber or nicer metal gate immediately in front of it? It would need to be as operable as the existing gate, tho', so not locked/secured. It just means two gates need swinging, instead of one.

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

On that note, why not a nice timber or nicer metal gate immediately in front of it? It would need to be as operable as the existing gate, tho', so not locked/secured. It just means two gates need swinging, instead of one.

The main reason is that the land doesn't belong to either of the properties and therefore neither has a right to start putting a gate across it.

The council has made a Public Space Protection Order - which means although they don't own the land either, they have started the process of taking control of it for the public good.

They are unlikely to be happy with people who don't have the right to put a gate up, putting a gate up which blocks access to their own gate - and sure, promises can be made not to lock the new gate, but it is very easy to lock a gate after it has been installed and people don't always do what they promise.

Therefore the "may not be altered, adjusted or modified in any way" response will almost certainly include adding a second gate in proximity to the council's one.  And if a new gate appeared on the QT then in the circumstances I'd expect the council will hear about it fairly quickly and come round to remove it.

I think this is one of those situations where, if they proceed with the purchase, the OP needs to do their best to forget about the gate and the alleyway, save for protecting any right of access they may have across it. 

Imagine this was a case where the gate and alleyway did belong to the neighbour and the thread starter (not the OP here) had posted on the forum saying they hated the neighbour's gate and wanted to make them change it.  What would the advice be then?

If you are considering buying a property but absolutely hate the neighbour's gate you have to reconsider buying the property - not assume you can move in and then make the neighbour change their property to suit your taste. (this isn't a criticism of the OP, just pointing out that it can't be assumed you can alter your neighbour's property)

theoretica

I don't think it has been specified - does the house you are buying have ROW down there?  I think you said it was not on the land registry plan - is it in words anywhere on the deed - for your property or the neighbour?  Just because there looks like being a gate in the garden wall may not actually mean it comes with any rights.

subjecttocontract

Exactly......

ThisIsWeird

Section62 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

On that note, why not a nice timber or nicer metal gate immediately in front of it? It would need to be as operable as the existing gate, tho', so not locked/secured. It just means two gates need swinging, instead of one.

The main reason is that the land doesn't belong to either of the properties and therefore neither has a right to start putting a gate across it.

The council has made a Public Space Protection Order - which means although they don't own the land either, they have started the process of taking control of it for the public good.

They are unlikely to be happy with people who don't have the right to put a gate up, putting a gate up which blocks access to their own gate - and sure, promises can be made not to lock the new gate, but it is very easy to lock a gate after it has been installed and people don't always do what they promise.

Therefore the "may not be altered, adjusted or modified in any way" response will almost certainly include adding a second gate in proximity to the council's one.  And if a new gate appeared on the QT then in the circumstances I'd expect the council will hear about it fairly quickly and come round to remove it.

I think this is one of those situations where, if they proceed with the purchase, the OP needs to do their best to forget about the gate and the alleyway, save for protecting any right of access they may have across it. 

Imagine this was a case where the gate and alleyway did belong to the neighbour and the thread starter (not the OP here) had posted on the forum saying they hated the neighbour's gate and wanted to make them change it.  What would the advice be then?

If you are considering buying a property but absolutely hate the neighbour's gate you have to reconsider buying the property - not assume you can move in and then make the neighbour change their property to suit your taste. (this isn't a criticism of the OP, just pointing out that it can't be assumed you can alter your neighbour's property)

Indeed. But the worst case scenario is that they'd be asked to remove it.