Changing unused 'council owned' gate?

gazfocus

My wife and I have just had our offer accepted on a property and I am looking for some advice. 

The house is in need of extensive modernisation (it's a 1930's house that's not been touched...but not neglected and very well kept since it was first built...the sellers family have owned the house from new). 

In between the house we are buying, and the next door neighbour, there is a metal gate that the estate agents believe is owned by the council. It looks as though as one point, the gate was to provide access to the gardens a few doors down, but the area is now massively overgrown so access would be impossible. 

As the gate looks hideous, I would very much like to (with the neighbours agreement), replace the gate with a much nicer wooden gate, or even put a wooden gate in front of the councils gate. 

Is there any way I can find out definitively if the council own the gate and the small ally way? The ally way isn't on the title plan for either the next door neighbour or the house we are buying.

I've added a picture to show what I mean. 

WhiskersTheWonderCat

I am guessing that the land and the gate are owned by the council, so replacing it or hiding it with another, would be out of the question. I doubt the council would replace an "ugly" functional gate, with anything prettier. 

subjecttocontract

1. It doesn't look like the timber in front of the gate has been put there by the council.
2. The area of land in front of the gate appears to be accessed by your neighbour to park a car.....see tyre marks across the surface.
3. Presumably it's potentially a very useful access route to your rear garden.....provided the gate isn't locked.

gazfocus

Thanks for the replies so far. 

WhiskersTheWonderCat said:

I am guessing that the land and the gate are owned by the council, so replacing it or hiding it with another, would be out of the question. I doubt the council would replace an "ugly" functional gate, with anything prettier. 

Any idea how I find out if the council own it and have any interest in it? If they have no interest in it, I'd be keen to see if the neighbour and ourselves could assume ownership of it.

With regards to changing the gate, I was wondering more if I'd be allowed to change the gate at our expense to something more attractive.

subjecttocontract said:

1. It doesn't look like the timber in front of the gate has been put there by the council.
2. The area of land in front of the gate appears to be accessed by your neighbour to park a car.....see tyre marks across the surface.
3. Presumably it's potentially a very useful access route to your rear garden.....provided the gate isn't locked.

The wood in front of the gate is no longer there, but the land behind the gate is quite scruffy and has various things just thrown there (presumably from the neighbour house) such as ladders, etc.

Yes, I had noticed that about the access to the neighbours drive. We need to drive up there of an evening to see if they park a second vehicle on the land in front of the gate but in theory they shouldn't do and we would intend to use that patch in a similar manner to access parking in front of our house.

The house currently has an oil fired Aga with the oil tank in the back garden, which will be getting removed. I imagine that this is the access to allow the tank to be filled up by the tanker that delivers the oil. There is definitely a gate leading from this land into the garden which you can just about see in the picture above.

It's just a shame because this gate ruins what is otherwise a lovely looking period house.

theoretica

This is website is good for showing land registry lines - is that alleyway on it?  Or take an informed guess on which property may mention it in the deeds about right of way and access.

 https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

Section62

gazfocus said:

Is there any way I can find out definitively if the council own the gate and the small ally way? The ally way isn't on the title plan for either the next door neighbour or the house we are buying.

As the properties don't look like council houses I would guess this is what the council would call a "gated alleyway".

I.e. The alleyway giving access to the rear of the properties probably belongs to the original developer of the houses, but no longer exists or cannot be traced.  Due to anti-social behaviour/crime issues, the council has agreed to gate the alleyway - they have the power to do this, even if the individual residents don't.

If this is the case then the council are unlikely to be willing to have the gate changed by anyone other than them (as they will own and manage the gate and don't want it replaced with an inferior one).  It is also quite likely some of the neighbours will object to any changes as these arrangements normally work on the basis of the council acting as a neutral party in terms of use of the RoW.  If you and the other adjoining neighbour change the gate you can also change the lock, and then begin stopping the other neighbours using the RoW.

So the starting point is finding out who owns the alleyway.  If you can't find out, then it probably is a case where the council have applied the "gated alleyway" approach.

The shortcut would be to ask the highway authority for that area - they will probably know whether is is a gated alleyway.  If not, they will know who you should ask.

WhiskersTheWonderCat

The main problem is that because it is council land/property, that the council will always be legally responsible for the upkeep of it and the gate. So it's very unlikely they would ever replace it with a timber gate that would require far more maintenance/upkeep. 

Personally, I don't think the metal gate itself is too distracting (if the wooden part has been removed as you say). I think the unkempt gravel is far more damaging to the appearance. 

gazfocus

Thanks, I’ll do some digging and see what I can find. Another thought I had was adding some sort of trellis/climbing plant to the gates but think that would be even more unlikely to be allowed if they are indeed council gates. 

theoretica

The gate doesn't look hugely old (is it there in the oldest streetview?) which rather counts against it being forgotten and abandoned.

subjecttocontract

Tidy up the gate as is and spray the gravel area beyond with weed killer a couple of times a year to keep it looking tidy. Be happy you have a ready made access to your rear garden which will be very useful for you.

gazfocus

theoretica said:

This is website is good for showing land registry lines - is that alleyway on it?  Or take an informed guess on which property may mention it in the deeds about right of way and access.

 https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

Have just had a look at that... what a fab tool. 
Unfortunately, the alleyway does not appear to be within the boundary of either property. I've uploaded the results (the lines are a bit off but you can see what I mean).