New Octopus tariff for solar and battery users - Octopus Flux

pete-20-11

I'm on the intelligent version of flux.

I also didn't move to agile or something else for the winter. 

Similar reasons - the hassle of getting the tariffs setup (especially export), the risk of issues onboarding the battery again when I switch back.

Plus the complexity of changing routines in home assistant e.g. moving everything to agile style automations, monitoring, energy dashboard stuff too. 

I quite like the 3 hour peak on Octopus Intelligent Flux, better than 3 hour off peak! The grid is my battery now (as the prices to export and import are the same during each rate period). 

The battery itself only gets used to export during 4-7pm peak. Otherwise I run from grid and if sunny export to grid (plus charge battery) during off peak. 

EcoScruples

pete-20-11 said:

I'm on the intelligent version of flux.

I also didn't move to agile or something else for the winter. 

Similar reasons - the hassle of getting the tariffs setup (especially export), the risk of issues onboarding the battery again when I switch back.

Plus the complexity of changing routines in home assistant e.g. moving everything to agile style automations, monitoring, energy dashboard stuff too. 

I quite like the 3 hour peak on Octopus Intelligent Flux, better than 3 hour off peak! The grid is my battery now (as the prices to export and import are the same during each rate period). 

The battery itself only gets used to export during 4-7pm peak. Otherwise I run from grid and if sunny export to grid (plus charge battery) during off peak. 

So you don't top up your battery at all? Does that mean you draw from the grid overnight?

Jonboy1889

Flux definitely works for battery users and solar only (no EV).

Becomes more marginal over summer with an EV vs agile.

agile and agile fixed export 

This is mid March mid Apr above.

would have to do a lot of peak export to offset.

Will start to change with the weather getting better.

But even managing a blended rate of 17.5p on my export (the equivalent of what I managed last year with flux)- would struggle to offset the EV charging (around 150kw a month where I manage around 5p average). Even my best export month of 600KW last year (which this year does not look like replicating with all the rain), flux would only be marginally better.

EV does change the picture somewhat. I’ve rarely charged the EV for more than 4-5p a KW, lots of negative nights or close to 0. Altho summer will be different. But it’s not just the nighttime rates that are the benefits of agile- daytime rates are also quite a bit lower which also saves you vs flux.

pete-20-11

EcoScruples said:

pete-20-11 said:

I'm on the intelligent version of flux.

I also didn't move to agile or something else for the winter. 

Similar reasons - the hassle of getting the tariffs setup (especially export), the risk of issues onboarding the battery again when I switch back.

Plus the complexity of changing routines in home assistant e.g. moving everything to agile style automations, monitoring, energy dashboard stuff too. 

I quite like the 3 hour peak on Octopus Intelligent Flux, better than 3 hour off peak! The grid is my battery now (as the prices to export and import are the same during each rate period). 

The battery itself only gets used to export during 4-7pm peak. Otherwise I run from grid and if sunny export to grid (plus charge battery) during off peak. 

So you don't top up your battery at all? Does that mean you draw from the grid overnight?

The battery does get topped up, but is only discharged during peak rate (4-7pm)

I use the grid overnight as it's off peak from 7pm onwards. 

No point using stored energy as there is a loss as you charge and discharge.

Okay you could say whatever is in the battery from solar could be used during off peak rate to save importing during off peak, but then that's more wear on the battery.

I therefore just go with the approach of letting octopus control the battery and consider the national grid to be my battery - as whatever I use overnight I get back the next day when it's sunny. It's like an interest free loan! Get paid the same to export as I'm charged to import. 

(And that import and export price goes up, by the same amount, during the peak 4-7pm). So I earn a bit more during peak especially if it's live generation or stored solar energy in the battery. 

Netexporter

This week's Gary Does Solar video is on Intelligent Flux, if anybody is interested. He's changed from Agile and doesn't yet have an EV, so the Go tariffs are not an option for him.

MallyGirl

I was on Flux after my solar and battery setup was installed but I finally managed to get Intelligent Flux working last Tuesday. It was a sunny week which is obviously better all round but I am optimistic for the build up of credit over the summer. I will review whether this is the right tariff for winter later in the year.

Jonboy1889

Netexporter said:

This week's Gary Does Solar video is on Intelligent Flux, if anybody is interested. He's changed from Agile and doesn't yet have an EV, so the Go tariffs are not an option for him.

Still not convinced Go is the only option for EVs, esp light users. Eg if you use 200KW in a month on EV and 200KW on other import, your blended go rate would be 17.3p, which you can beat with agile if u wait for the right nights/rates. My ratio is more standard import than EV so it works even better (blended rate 13p the last 30 days)

Agile is an option still if you can be bothered working round the rates/timings.

all depends on need/usage.

same goes with Flux. To justify the extra 2-2.5p you get on export your export would consistently have to be around 4-5x your import amount. For example, even without EV blended import rate on flux could easily be 30p inc peak rate (vs the very achievable 20p on agile). You're getting 2p extra on export but losing 10p cost on import.

its the same with Octopus Go- you’re not really paying just 7.5p per KW for your EV as the opportunity cost of the rest of your import being at a high rate offsets this. 

Either way not huge margins between Go vs Agile vs Flux esp over summer for a low EV user. Maybe £5-10 a month here and there.

what is certain is that Octopus have the best plans!!

Exiled_Tyke

Jonboy1889 said:

Still not convinced Go is the only option for EVs, esp light users. Eg if you use 200KW in a month on EV and 200KW on other import, your blended go rate would be 17.3p, which you can beat with agile if u wait for the right nights/rates. My ratio is more standard import than EV so it works even better (blended rate 13p the last 30 days)

its the same with Octopus Go- you’re not really paying just 7.5p per KW for your EV as the opportunity cost of the rest of your import being at a high rate offsets this. 

I'm not entirely convinced by this argument.  Some non-EV consumption can be shifted to the cheap rate which on Intelligent is a 6 hour window. Both my dishwasher and washing machine go on at night now (unless I have enough PV during the day). The only major consumption I can't shift is cooking.  

Screwdriva

^ Agree w/ E_T.

As the consumption/ export breakdown I’ve shared above will highlight, Flux allows all heavy appliances to be run at an import tariff lower than the base daytime export tariff. We don't own a battery (made even more redundant by Flux).

I do take the point about being a net exporter and being able to shift load away from the peak 4-7pm window, which is a common theme across most of these tariffs, in order for these tariffs to work more favourably. 

Jonboy1889

Exiled_Tyke said:

Jonboy1889 said:

Still not convinced Go is the only option for EVs, esp light users. Eg if you use 200KW in a month on EV and 200KW on other import, your blended go rate would be 17.3p, which you can beat with agile if u wait for the right nights/rates. My ratio is more standard import than EV so it works even better (blended rate 13p the last 30 days)

its the same with Octopus Go- you’re not really paying just 7.5p per KW for your EV as the opportunity cost of the rest of your import being at a high rate offsets this. 

I'm not entirely convinced by this argument.  Some non-EV consumption can be shifted to the cheap rate which on Intelligent is a 6 hour window. Both my dishwasher and washing machine go on at night now (unless I have enough PV during the day). The only major consumption I can't shift is cooking.  

Yes agree it’s possible to do that with some things- but depends on your house set up. Most of our usage is electric heaters, dehumidifiers and washing/tumble driers, none of which we can shift outside daytime either because I need the heat when I’m in the garden office or due to the noise pollution disturbing my other household members ;-) altho we can shift outside 4-7pm which still gives us a better agile rate. Dishwasher is the only thing I can shift to be at night.

its different if you have a battery, but we don’t have one.

i just love agile, but like i say won’t be hugely different to Go if used right.