2022 was the warmest year on record

dealyboy

Hi SAC ...
I am also a wild bird watcher and feeder, although not a twitcher.

I have seen many changes to bird populations over the years, to red kites, sparrows and goldfinches to name but three in my garden, plus of course the residence of seagulls far inland. Change is the only constant some might say.

What do the BTO say?

Apodemus

Mstty said:

There is no doubt that as a species we have done more damage than good, results yet to be determined. Some might compare us to locusts if they were being kind.

Ooh, Quatermass and the Pit!   

ariarnia

SAC2334 said:

A._Badger said:

SAC2334 said:

Krakkkers said:

I was just kidding, i believe in man made climate change but am also familiar with the fact the the Earths climate has varied wildly on both a short and long term timescale.
Jack Schmidt ( the only scientist sent to the moon, apollo 17) is a well known sceptic though and a lot of other very smart people.
Best to be an open minded sceptic on the subject, no one should be certain of what is happening but a move to renewables is sensible whatever you believe. I have a signed copy of Last man on the moon, signed by Jacks partner on that mission, Gene Cernan.

Why would you take any notice of such people as an ex astronaut , or Jeremy Clarkson/Nigel Lawson or any one else unqualified ?
99.9 % of scientists agree that climate change is caused by human acivity . 

I m a keen birdwatcher and the migration of Southern Europeans species which rely on wetlands and rivers have moved North in the last 30 years in huge numbers to escape the lack of food in their usual habitat. 

If you don t believe in the scientists just watch out for the very common birds in our river s and estuarys such as Little Egret and Great Egret which have invaded the UK from the 1970 s onwards .They know whats happening even if you don t .

Even some Swallows stay in UK all year and I ve already had a Blackcap in my garden this week when it normally go s south for the winter. 

That old claim of 99.9% has been debunked so many times it is beyond parody.. There are many scientists (notably physicists, astrophysicists and geologists - not to mention the scientists who monitor the satellite temperature records at UA Huntsville) who dispute the claims of alarmists and it is not helpful for anyone's case to just pretend they don't, that their scientific opinions are worthless and that the only doubts come from people like Jeremy Clarkson. If there's a scientific argument to be had it should be had on level ground.    

I saw my first ever Great Egret , (a large white wading bird bigger than a Heron) in upper Egypt in 1994 around  the Nile in Luxor.  Not seen in UK except in rare occasional singles
.. Now they re in my back yard in South Yorkshire in fairly increasing numbers with many reported every day in my area . Do you  want any more convincing evidence that the planet is warming at an alarming rate ?
If you dont believe the scientists , believe in  nature not some iffy  " scientists" making a living from social media crap.

im not arguing against climate change. but i'm assuming you mean a couple of months in the summer? google says average (yearly) temps in egypt are about 22. in the uk is about 10. so the only time the temp is remotely what the birds are used to is maybe july/august

but how do you know that its global warming that caused that change and not humans building housing estates or whatever where they would normally be in egypt? 

i think thats the problem i have with some of the claims. yes i think theres human caused climate change. but some of the things people look at and say 'climate change' are other human caused things like farming population pressure and development. 

and i think thats the same as some others on here. not saying climate change isnt happening and that humans arent major reasons why. just that some of the more extreme climate change fanatics that are in our faces in the media arent any more right than the deniers. the truth is in the middle. 

Spoonie_Turtle

ariarnia said:

SAC2334 said:

A._Badger said:

SAC2334 said:

Krakkkers said:

I was just kidding, i believe in man made climate change but am also familiar with the fact the the Earths climate has varied wildly on both a short and long term timescale.
Jack Schmidt ( the only scientist sent to the moon, apollo 17) is a well known sceptic though and a lot of other very smart people.
Best to be an open minded sceptic on the subject, no one should be certain of what is happening but a move to renewables is sensible whatever you believe. I have a signed copy of Last man on the moon, signed by Jacks partner on that mission, Gene Cernan.

Why would you take any notice of such people as an ex astronaut , or Jeremy Clarkson/Nigel Lawson or any one else unqualified ?
99.9 % of scientists agree that climate change is caused by human acivity . 

I m a keen birdwatcher and the migration of Southern Europeans species which rely on wetlands and rivers have moved North in the last 30 years in huge numbers to escape the lack of food in their usual habitat. 

If you don t believe in the scientists just watch out for the very common birds in our river s and estuarys such as Little Egret and Great Egret which have invaded the UK from the 1970 s onwards .They know whats happening even if you don t .

Even some Swallows stay in UK all year and I ve already had a Blackcap in my garden this week when it normally go s south for the winter. 

That old claim of 99.9% has been debunked so many times it is beyond parody.. There are many scientists (notably physicists, astrophysicists and geologists - not to mention the scientists who monitor the satellite temperature records at UA Huntsville) who dispute the claims of alarmists and it is not helpful for anyone's case to just pretend they don't, that their scientific opinions are worthless and that the only doubts come from people like Jeremy Clarkson. If there's a scientific argument to be had it should be had on level ground.    

I saw my first ever Great Egret , (a large white wading bird bigger than a Heron) in upper Egypt in 1994 around  the Nile in Luxor.  Not seen in UK except in rare occasional singles
.. Now they re in my back yard in South Yorkshire in fairly increasing numbers with many reported every day in my area . Do you  want any more convincing evidence that the planet is warming at an alarming rate ?
If you dont believe the scientists , believe in  nature not some iffy  " scientists" making a living from social media crap.

im not arguing against climate change. but i'm assuming you mean a couple of months in the summer? google says average (yearly) temps in egypt are about 22. in the uk is about 10. so the only time the temp is remotely what the birds are used to is maybe july/august

No, what you actually need to look at for migratory birds (and other migratory species) is the average temperatures in the months in which they migrate, in the areas where they were only previously found in each season and where they now go. 

It's not just birds, or even land animals.  Sealife is an excellent indicator because the overall temperature of the oceans is not going to be directly affected by previous areas of countryside being built up. 

Although non-sea animals' usual response to areas becoming built up is not to migrate to an entirely different (cooler) landmass thousands of miles and tens of degrees of latitude away, they simply go to other habitable areas in the near vicinity.  They don't completely change their migratory patterns by the magnitude that we see today just because their original environment has been built up.

You're also assuming that all such species have moved out of their original habitat, when for some it's that more of the world is warm enough for them so their geographical range has enlarged and increased northwards, rather than their range staying a similar size and moving (although that is a massive problem, of course, I'm not implying otherwise).

ariarnia

Spoonie_Turtle said: 

You're also assuming that all such species have moved out of their original habitat, when for some it's that more of the world is warm enough for them so their geographical range has enlarged and increased northwards, rather than their range staying a similar size and moving (although that is a massive problem, of course, I'm not implying otherwise).

no actually i'm not.

what i'm saying is that its more complicated than i'm seeing birds in my area that werent around 20 years ago so it must be global warming... 

or its the hottest this year than its been in the last 40 years so it must be global warming... 

or this area has had the worst flooding in its history this year so it must be global warming... 

yes global warming is probably at least part of it but a lot of the problems we have are also because of other things we (humans) have done such as incredible population growth in places like egypt (unsustainable population growth) and really bad planning. 

Krakkkers

A lot of flooding is to do with building on flood plains and large areas of buildings/roads that allow no drainage.

Spoonie_Turtle

ariarnia said:

Spoonie_Turtle said: 

You're also assuming that all such species have moved out of their original habitat, when for some it's that more of the world is warm enough for them so their geographical range has enlarged and increased northwards, rather than their range staying a similar size and moving (although that is a massive problem, of course, I'm not implying otherwise).

no actually i'm not.

what i'm saying is that its more complicated than i'm seeing birds in my area that werent around 20 years ago so it must be global warming... 

or its the hottest this year than its been in the last 40 years so it must be global warming... 

or this area has had the worst flooding in its history this year so it must be global warming... 

yes global warming is probably at least part of it but a lot of the problems we have are also because of other things we (humans) have done such as incredible population growth in places like egypt (unsustainable population growth) and really bad planning. 

I understand what you're saying, and agree not everything must be due entirely to climate change.  But when reputable experts in their fields on the whole agree that something is climate-related, I trust that they've included non-climate variables in their considerations and either discounted them or determined they are less of a factor than the climate.  And decent explanations of and reporting on the experts' opinions will reference their whole opinions not cherry pick.

ariarnia

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ariarnia said:

Spoonie_Turtle said: 

You're also assuming that all such species have moved out of their original habitat, when for some it's that more of the world is warm enough for them so their geographical range has enlarged and increased northwards, rather than their range staying a similar size and moving (although that is a massive problem, of course, I'm not implying otherwise).

no actually i'm not.

what i'm saying is that its more complicated than i'm seeing birds in my area that werent around 20 years ago so it must be global warming... 

or its the hottest this year than its been in the last 40 years so it must be global warming... 

or this area has had the worst flooding in its history this year so it must be global warming... 

yes global warming is probably at least part of it but a lot of the problems we have are also because of other things we (humans) have done such as incredible population growth in places like egypt (unsustainable population growth) and really bad planning. 

I understand what you're saying, and agree not everything must be due entirely to climate change.  But when reputable experts in their fields on the whole agree that something is climate-related, I trust that they've included non-climate variables in their considerations and either discounted them or determined they are less of a factor than the climate.  And decent explanations of and reporting on the experts' opinions will reference their whole opinions not cherry pick.

theres nothing there that i disagree with. 

other than i've yet to read any reporting on climate change thats been balanced on causes. media reporting of science in general is awful (just look at how everything simultaneously causes and protects from cancer) 

and we werent talking about comments from "reputable experts in their field" were we?

i at least was responding to the second post on the thread where it was suggested only climate change deniers would doubt the significance of the claim the "top ten recorded temps in UK are all in the last two decades" 

or that it was blatantly obvious climate change was the reason an egyptian bird was being seen in someones back garden. 

theres lots of reasons someone might question the importance of those statements in relation to global climate change without denying that [human caused] climate change exists (and is a problem). 

its a complicated problem with complicated solutions and being fanatical either way is bad imo. 

Coffeekup

Mstty said:

Glad the first of three air to air heater and air con units are installed for next year.

Which ones did you go for?

Mstty

Coffeekup said:

Mstty said:

Glad the first of three air to air heater and air con units are installed for next year.

Which ones did you go for?

I went for the system in this discussion as the first area to heat was a partially insulated garage converted into a gym

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6402378/storage-panel-heaters-but-why-arent-people-installing-heat-pump-aircon-units/p1


We will look at a unit that can handle lower temps outside for heating better a names brand Mitsubishi probably to match our ASHP multi split system to cool 2-3 rooms in summer and in winter maybe hold off on the whole house ASHP heating turn on til the type of cold spell we had in December.