American Express (Amex) direct debit setup with RBS current Account not collected

OceanSound

The November statement said Direct Debit (DD) will be collected on 12 December 2022. However, it's now 13 December and the money hasn't left my RBS current account.

My October Amex statement said DD will be collected on 11 November 2022 and the DD was collected precisely on that date. 

This particular Amex card was opened on 01 October 2022, so has only had two statements issued up to now. So, to investigate further I checked a few DD collections for my other Amex card. Those DD's for that card was setup initially with Halifax bank then I changed to Natwest (to make up one of the two DD's needed for NatWest Rewards Scheme). On each of those occasions I checked, the DD collection date matched the date on the Amex statement.

As this is Amex, even though the DD was not collected on 12 December I have until 23 December to make payment. Just a bit odd that the DD wasn't collected on the exact date as on the statement. Anyone else experience the same or similar?

By the way, I've contacted RBS support to make them aware. The issue may be specific to my RBS current account. RBS support did change the statement date of my RBS credit card (which has DD setup to collect from RBS current account also) so Direct debit for that card is taken earlier than the end of the month. That didn't prevent the DD for that card from being collected as per usual at the end of November. So, I'm thinking maybe that whole episode has messed up ALL my RBS DD's. Hopefull not. It could be a system-wide issue affecting all RBS current account holders with DD's setup. Unlikely, but could happen. RBS app chat support is due to get back to me within 2 hours. Let's see what they say.

Dobbibill

I would speak to Amex rather than RBS - if you changed the bank that the DD was due to be collected from then very often you need to make the first payment manually and the DD is collected from the following statement with some credit cards.

OceanSound

Dobbibill said:

I would speak to Amex rather than RBS - if you changed the bank that the DD was due to be collected from then very often you need to make the first payment manually and the DD is collected from the following statement with some credit cards.

Soon after posting this thread realised I should speak (chat) to Amex to see if something is up on their side. 

Chatted with Amex via app. They've told me they sent the request to the bank (RBS) on 8 December. He's also assured me that there is no issue at their (Amex) end. 

...if you changed the bank that the DD was due to be collected from then very often you need to make the first payment manually and the DD is collected from the following statement with some credit cards.

The change of DD bank happened with my other AMEX card. See OP:

...So, to investigate further I checked a few DD collections for my other Amex card. Those DD's for that card was setup initially with Halifax bank then I changed to Natwest (to make up one of the two DD's needed for NatWest Rewards Scheme). On each of those occasions I checked, the DD collection date matched the date on the Amex statement.

The Amex card with the DD not collected is called Platinum Cashback (opened on 1 October) . DD collecting bank account has never been changed for that card. While the other amex card is called Rewards Credit card and that has been opened for a while. That rewards credit card is the one that had banks changed for DD collection. 

Even if I had changed banks for DD collection with the new Platinum Cashback card the scenario you describe is unlikely because as I said my statement says DD date is 12 December 2022. As far as I'm aware the manual payment is necessary only where there is no such written confirmation, through a statement, a letter/email or such like.

After receiving confirmation, if an error does occur, we are protected by the Direct Debit Guarantee.

I have in the past experienced a scenario (this was to do with RBS credit card- DD collecting from RBS current account) where the statement date was changed, so that the Direct Debit date can be bought to the middle of the month. RBS confirmed that DD will be collected around 20th December, however, the old direct debit which was due to be collected around 28 November was still collected. There was no warning about this. I've complained to RBS, especially because a 'missed payment' warning appeared on the App around 26 November, so I immediately made a manual payment the same day. Therefore, there's been two payments in November (one manual and one through DD). RBS is currently investigating that complaint. 

grumbler

Dobbibill said:

if you changed the bank that the DD was due to be collected from then very often you need to make the first payment manually and the DD is collected from the following statement with some credit cards.

I never needed - and I did this many times. If they don't have time to set up the new DD, they collect the next one from the old (existing) account.

sausage_time

My Amex DD due from RBS yesterday has also not been taken.  No recent changes for me.

OceanSound

grumbler said:

Dobbibill said:

if you changed the bank that the DD was due to be collected from then very often you need to make the first payment manually and the DD is collected from the following statement with some credit cards.

I never needed - and I did this many times. If they don't have time to set up the new DD, they collect the next one from the old (existing) account.

I suppose the statement dosen't say specifically which account the DD is going to be collected from (old or new account). Have you ever had a letter, email or such like saying DD will be collected from new account then DD had still gone on to be collected from old account?

OceanSound

Update: RBS support has just got back. They are saying Amex has not claimed the payment yet and are asking me to enquire from Amex why they haven't claimed the payment yet and that there is no issue at their (RBS) end.

This is pretty much what AMex said to me when I chatted with them earlier. Does anyone know what happens in this scenario? I don't have time to be going back and forth between the Amex and RBS. 

msallen

This subject crops up occasionally - for example https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79373719#Comment_79373719 . My Amex DD is always taken late.

OceanSound

msallen said:

This subject crops up occasionally - for example https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79373719#Comment_79373719 . My Amex DD is always taken late.

Amex DD has gone through!. I checked at 10 am today (3 am UK time) and RBS app shows DD has debited.

Yesterday I replied to RBS support. They were asking me to contact Amex and enquire. In my reply (to RBS) I said I had already contacted Amex and they confirmed that the DD request to the bank (RBS) was sent on 8 December. I also asked what the next step is in this case, as I cannot be going back and forth.

RBS support told me they can see an active direct debit to Amex and that they (Amex) have not attempted payment since 11 November. RBS support said there's nothing blocking the payment from their side and that in this case it may be best for Amex to setup a new DD!

The last attempted date 11 November was what I could see within the RBS App. It seems crazy that RBS support cannot see any info that Amex had requested the DD on 8 December. In fact, it seems they'd be none the wiser until the DD actually debits from my account! Is this how DD's generally work or is it just RBS support perhaps not looking in the correct place to obtain the most up-to-date info?

BTW, about DD date on statement and actual DD debit date, I decided to look at one of my old closed Amex cards (platinum cashback). Yes, you're correct the actual DD debit from current account date has deviated from the date shown on Amex statement on more than one occasion. Here's the detail:

1) Amex statement date = 15.09.2019

DD date (on amex statement) = 29.09.2019   (sun)

Actual DD debit    = 01.10.2019   (mon)

2) Amex statement = 15.10.2019

DD date (on amex statement) = 29.10.2019   (tue)

Actual DD debit   = 30.10.2019   (wed)

However, contrary to your experience, there has been occasions where DD was collected on exact date. 

BTW, anyone who wants DD's debiting NOT at the end of the month but around the middle of the month, refrain from opening the credit card account around 20th, 21st (towards end of the month). Do it at the start of month. That way the DD is collected around the start or the middle of the month the latest, and there won't be any cross over to the next month as has happened here with the 29 September 2019 DD being deducted from current account on 01 October 2019. Looks like that was due to 29 September 2019 being a Sunday, so it was claimed on the next working day, which was 01 October 2019.

Ebe_Scrooge

OceanSound said:

BTW, anyone who wants DD's debiting NOT at the end of the month but around the middle of the month, refrain from opening the credit card account around 20th, 21st (towards end of the month).

In case it's helpful, most credit cards will allow you to change the statement/payment date.  You're correct in that the dates will be set by default depending on when you open the account, but if you phone them up you can usually ask them to change it.  This may mean that you receive two statements, and need to make two payments, in the month that you change it - depending on when you're changing the dates from and to.

OceanSound

Ebe_Scrooge said:

OceanSound said:

BTW, anyone who wants DD's debiting NOT at the end of the month but around the middle of the month, refrain from opening the credit card account around 20th, 21st (towards end of the month).

In case it's helpful, most credit cards will allow you to change the statement/payment date.  You're correct in that the dates will be set by default depending on when you open the account, but if you phone them up you can usually ask them to change it.  This may mean that you receive two statements, and need to make two payments, in the month that you change it - depending on when you're changing the dates from and to.

Changing dates by contacting support can (occasionally?) go belly up. As was the recent experience I had with RBS. That's how come I'm saying if you ensure the application is done at start of month, you may not need to change the DD date (which is actually done via changing the statement date). 

Luckily, I kept checking the rbs app, without listening to RBS support advice as foolproof (re. Next payment date). Otherwise, there was a risk that a missed payment would've been registered with a credit reference agency and it would've affected my credit rating. Yes, it can be challenged, but i think it can turn out to be a lot of hassle.

Edit: I believe, I started a thread about the rbs direct debit change of date not so long ago. Please refer to that thread for more info.

Edit2: interesting article about rbs reporting customer to three credit reference agencies for a missed payment where customer didn't receive statement: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/30/rbs-missed-credit-card-payment-credit-reference-agency