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Average speed camera zone with no signage
Comments
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diystarter7 said:jon81uk said:
I said thisdiystarter7 said:jon81uk said:
The government changed them to yellow because of people moaning that the cameras were only there to make money and that they were deliberately hidden to catch people out. It was bad press and complaints from the RAC and AA that caused the guidance that they should be yellow. Nothing to do with safety. The speed limit itself is to do with safety, the speed cameras are there to enforce the speed limit where drivers are often speeding causing a safety issue.diystarter7 said:
Hello againjon81uk said:
How does painting the camera yellow help warn me the speed limit is changing from 70 to 30? A yellow box doesn't indicate what speed limit applies.diystarter7 said:
Hi againjon81uk said:
Again, why should that matter to the average motorist. The amended speed limit is what is improving safety, so the speed limit signage by itself should be enough for most people. The knowledge of a camera should not affect peoples driving style or how safe they are behaving.diystarter7 said:
Hijon81uk said:
It shouldn't matter if you can see the cameras, if there are workers there or not, the important thing is that the speed limit signage is clear. You state the speed limit signage is lit.alleycat` said:I think this is why i asked the question.This particular stretch of works has been in place for many, many months now (Ouse bridge for anyone who's interested). The cameras are only a recent addition to works that haven't fundamentally changed very much.This is probably the first time I've ever come across works where "no" warning signage is in place at all. At night, as it's an unlit stretch of motorway, you can't see the cameras (the speed limit signs are, mostly, lit). In practice it would seem to undermine the function they're installed for (protect the workforce and to mitigate against the "assumed" lower impact resistance of the temporary barriers).
If there is clear signage and you are doing no more than the limit then nothing else should be of concern.
Please read the OP and their latest post. They are advocating what the gov preaches "safety" and I've posted examples where grey cam were forced to be changed to yellow cams. The OP was just highlighting a concern and concern shared by many me included, IE, if speed cams as "safety cams" as often touted by the gov, to increase safety, why not indeed make them more visible in areas where safety is of concern.
Many thanks
The highlighted bit, It should not matter but it does. Di you read fully my previous post and what thr gov states re speed cams aka by the proper name of SAFTEY CAMS. This is why they are painted yell and I gave you a good example of highways forced to change them from grey to yellow, why was that?
FYI, and I reiterate for your benefit, in the over 40 years of driving and always having cars inc some very cable ones, I've never had a speeding or any other ticket. Before the implementation of 5/20mph speed limits drove within the limits of what I could see as a speed limit is just that a LIMIT and not the max speed you need to travel at.
As the cams are Safet Cams - often sited where there it is deemed a higher risk - it is indeed and would be excellent practice to highlight the safety cams so people like us that are new to an area are helped with warning from dropping quickly form miles of possible 70mph to 30/etc.
Should you still disagree with the OP and me, that is indeed your prerogative but the point of safety cams is just that so why not highly the tiny cams.
Many thanks
Oh and the painted yellow thing is only because the AA moaned and "felt" motorists were being conned. Nothing to do with safety, just motorists wanting to speed and get away with it.
Where does the governement not refer to them as speed cameras?
Speeding penalties - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera locations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed cameras on Smart motorways - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
TfL use the term safety camera but not the government
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
I can't speak for you but it helps me, the OP an millions of others.
Ask yourself this - why did the gov agree to change the gey cams to yellow! Yes it is self-explanatory otherwise they painted the very dark grey and hid them behind trees/bins etc as done so in some countries.
When speed cams are chatted about and fines, they are often referred to as Saftey cams. Why is it that most cams are as per my previous post. That's right it to enhance 'Safety.' Why are speed cams at some roads works? Yes, correct to enhance safety.
I live in London and trust me friend, the cams are everywhere.
Re why the gov refer them to as "speed cams" - here, read below and this respected source that covers the whole of London
is calling them "Safety cams"
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
Thanks
I've never come across anyone else talking about "safety cams" they are always referred to as speed cameras or traffic light cameras.
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Not sure why that information helps "millions of others". If you do the speed limit then you won't get caught, thats all anyone needs to know.
What do you have to say re saftey cam link I posted from TFL?
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Safety camera could mean there are looking for people jumping red lights, or other issues not just speed.diystarter7 said:jon81uk said:
The government changed them to yellow because of people moaning that the cameras were only there to make money and that they were deliberately hidden to catch people out. It was bad press and complaints from the RAC and AA that caused the guidance that they should be yellow. Nothing to do with safety. The speed limit itself is to do with safety, the speed cameras are there to enforce the speed limit where drivers are often speeding causing a safety issue.diystarter7 said:
Hello againjon81uk said:
How does painting the camera yellow help warn me the speed limit is changing from 70 to 30? A yellow box doesn't indicate what speed limit applies.diystarter7 said:
Hi againjon81uk said:
Again, why should that matter to the average motorist. The amended speed limit is what is improving safety, so the speed limit signage by itself should be enough for most people. The knowledge of a camera should not affect peoples driving style or how safe they are behaving.diystarter7 said:
Hijon81uk said:
It shouldn't matter if you can see the cameras, if there are workers there or not, the important thing is that the speed limit signage is clear. You state the speed limit signage is lit.alleycat` said:I think this is why i asked the question.This particular stretch of works has been in place for many, many months now (Ouse bridge for anyone who's interested). The cameras are only a recent addition to works that haven't fundamentally changed very much.This is probably the first time I've ever come across works where "no" warning signage is in place at all. At night, as it's an unlit stretch of motorway, you can't see the cameras (the speed limit signs are, mostly, lit). In practice it would seem to undermine the function they're installed for (protect the workforce and to mitigate against the "assumed" lower impact resistance of the temporary barriers).
If there is clear signage and you are doing no more than the limit then nothing else should be of concern.
Please read the OP and their latest post. They are advocating what the gov preaches "safety" and I've posted examples where grey cam were forced to be changed to yellow cams. The OP was just highlighting a concern and concern shared by many me included, IE, if speed cams as "safety cams" as often touted by the gov, to increase safety, why not indeed make them more visible in areas where safety is of concern.
Many thanks
The highlighted bit, It should not matter but it does. Di you read fully my previous post and what thr gov states re speed cams aka by the proper name of SAFTEY CAMS. This is why they are painted yell and I gave you a good example of highways forced to change them from grey to yellow, why was that?
FYI, and I reiterate for your benefit, in the over 40 years of driving and always having cars inc some very cable ones, I've never had a speeding or any other ticket. Before the implementation of 5/20mph speed limits drove within the limits of what I could see as a speed limit is just that a LIMIT and not the max speed you need to travel at.
As the cams are Safet Cams - often sited where there it is deemed a higher risk - it is indeed and would be excellent practice to highlight the safety cams so people like us that are new to an area are helped with warning from dropping quickly form miles of possible 70mph to 30/etc.
Should you still disagree with the OP and me, that is indeed your prerogative but the point of safety cams is just that so why not highly the tiny cams.
Many thanks
Oh and the painted yellow thing is only because the AA moaned and "felt" motorists were being conned. Nothing to do with safety, just motorists wanting to speed and get away with it.
Where does the governement not refer to them as speed cameras?
Speeding penalties - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera locations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed cameras on Smart motorways - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
TfL use the term safety camera but not the government
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
I can't speak for you but it helps me, the OP an millions of others.
Ask yourself this - why did the gov agree to change the gey cams to yellow! Yes it is self-explanatory otherwise they painted the very dark grey and hid them behind trees/bins etc as done so in some countries.
When speed cams are chatted about and fines, they are often referred to as Saftey cams. Why is it that most cams are as per my previous post. That's right it to enhance 'Safety.' Why are speed cams at some roads works? Yes, correct to enhance safety.
I live in London and trust me friend, the cams are everywhere.
Re why the gov refer them to as "speed cams" - here, read below and this respected source that covers the whole of London
is calling them "Safety cams"
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
Thanks
I've never come across anyone else talking about "safety cams" they are always referred to as speed cameras or traffic light cameras.
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Not sure why that information helps "millions of others". If you do the speed limit then you won't get caught, thats all anyone needs to know.
Even good drivers can have an accident and painting them yellow is just another safety measure/warning to catch people's eye oat dangerous junctions, danger spots etc.
Pointing out that drivers need yellow cameras to behave safely actually makes me thing more cameras should be harder to see. Drivers should be following the speed limit even if they don't think they are being watched.
So you are advocating these safet cams are hidden which will result in more death and destruction.
Are you saying that lawful/careful drivers are not guided/aided by warning signs and yell cam signs?
When driving, I am always careful and signs, and yellow cams makes a safer driver like me safer.Questions.How will hidden cameras result in "more death and destruction"?Lawful/Careful drivers don't care one jot whether a camera is visible or hidden, since they will be driving at or below the speed limit anyway.How does a camera make a safe driver like you even safer?And an experienced and skillful driver doesn't need the presence of cameras to warn him that this particular area is an accident black-spot - he can work that out from careful observation and the layout of the road.I'm struggling to see how your arguments hold water.Anyway, this thread has somewhat wandered off from the original question, which was simply whether speed cameras have to be signed for them to be enforceable. The answer to which is a simple "no".
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You’re a careful safe driver, used to be advanced and close protection trained. Yet on another thread you worked for the council.diystarter7 said:
Hi againjon81uk said:
I said thisdiystarter7 said:jon81uk said:
The government changed them to yellow because of people moaning that the cameras were only there to make money and that they were deliberately hidden to catch people out. It was bad press and complaints from the RAC and AA that caused the guidance that they should be yellow. Nothing to do with safety. The speed limit itself is to do with safety, the speed cameras are there to enforce the speed limit where drivers are often speeding causing a safety issue.diystarter7 said:
Hello againjon81uk said:
How does painting the camera yellow help warn me the speed limit is changing from 70 to 30? A yellow box doesn't indicate what speed limit applies.diystarter7 said:
Hi againjon81uk said:
Again, why should that matter to the average motorist. The amended speed limit is what is improving safety, so the speed limit signage by itself should be enough for most people. The knowledge of a camera should not affect peoples driving style or how safe they are behaving.diystarter7 said:
Hijon81uk said:
It shouldn't matter if you can see the cameras, if there are workers there or not, the important thing is that the speed limit signage is clear. You state the speed limit signage is lit.alleycat` said:I think this is why i asked the question.This particular stretch of works has been in place for many, many months now (Ouse bridge for anyone who's interested). The cameras are only a recent addition to works that haven't fundamentally changed very much.This is probably the first time I've ever come across works where "no" warning signage is in place at all. At night, as it's an unlit stretch of motorway, you can't see the cameras (the speed limit signs are, mostly, lit). In practice it would seem to undermine the function they're installed for (protect the workforce and to mitigate against the "assumed" lower impact resistance of the temporary barriers).
If there is clear signage and you are doing no more than the limit then nothing else should be of concern.
Please read the OP and their latest post. They are advocating what the gov preaches "safety" and I've posted examples where grey cam were forced to be changed to yellow cams. The OP was just highlighting a concern and concern shared by many me included, IE, if speed cams as "safety cams" as often touted by the gov, to increase safety, why not indeed make them more visible in areas where safety is of concern.
Many thanks
The highlighted bit, It should not matter but it does. Di you read fully my previous post and what thr gov states re speed cams aka by the proper name of SAFTEY CAMS. This is why they are painted yell and I gave you a good example of highways forced to change them from grey to yellow, why was that?
FYI, and I reiterate for your benefit, in the over 40 years of driving and always having cars inc some very cable ones, I've never had a speeding or any other ticket. Before the implementation of 5/20mph speed limits drove within the limits of what I could see as a speed limit is just that a LIMIT and not the max speed you need to travel at.
As the cams are Safet Cams - often sited where there it is deemed a higher risk - it is indeed and would be excellent practice to highlight the safety cams so people like us that are new to an area are helped with warning from dropping quickly form miles of possible 70mph to 30/etc.
Should you still disagree with the OP and me, that is indeed your prerogative but the point of safety cams is just that so why not highly the tiny cams.
Many thanks
Oh and the painted yellow thing is only because the AA moaned and "felt" motorists were being conned. Nothing to do with safety, just motorists wanting to speed and get away with it.
Where does the governement not refer to them as speed cameras?
Speeding penalties - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera locations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed cameras on Smart motorways - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
TfL use the term safety camera but not the government
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
I can't speak for you but it helps me, the OP an millions of others.
Ask yourself this - why did the gov agree to change the gey cams to yellow! Yes it is self-explanatory otherwise they painted the very dark grey and hid them behind trees/bins etc as done so in some countries.
When speed cams are chatted about and fines, they are often referred to as Saftey cams. Why is it that most cams are as per my previous post. That's right it to enhance 'Safety.' Why are speed cams at some roads works? Yes, correct to enhance safety.
I live in London and trust me friend, the cams are everywhere.
Re why the gov refer them to as "speed cams" - here, read below and this respected source that covers the whole of London
is calling them "Safety cams"
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
Thanks
I've never come across anyone else talking about "safety cams" they are always referred to as speed cameras or traffic light cameras.
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Not sure why that information helps "millions of others". If you do the speed limit then you won't get caught, thats all anyone needs to know.
What do you have to say re saftey cam link I posted from TFL?
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Safety camera could mean there are looking for people jumping red lights, or other issues not just speed.diystarter7 said:jon81uk said:
The government changed them to yellow because of people moaning that the cameras were only there to make money and that they were deliberately hidden to catch people out. It was bad press and complaints from the RAC and AA that caused the guidance that they should be yellow. Nothing to do with safety. The speed limit itself is to do with safety, the speed cameras are there to enforce the speed limit where drivers are often speeding causing a safety issue.diystarter7 said:
Hello againjon81uk said:
How does painting the camera yellow help warn me the speed limit is changing from 70 to 30? A yellow box doesn't indicate what speed limit applies.diystarter7 said:
Hi againjon81uk said:
Again, why should that matter to the average motorist. The amended speed limit is what is improving safety, so the speed limit signage by itself should be enough for most people. The knowledge of a camera should not affect peoples driving style or how safe they are behaving.diystarter7 said:
Hijon81uk said:
It shouldn't matter if you can see the cameras, if there are workers there or not, the important thing is that the speed limit signage is clear. You state the speed limit signage is lit.alleycat` said:I think this is why i asked the question.This particular stretch of works has been in place for many, many months now (Ouse bridge for anyone who's interested). The cameras are only a recent addition to works that haven't fundamentally changed very much.This is probably the first time I've ever come across works where "no" warning signage is in place at all. At night, as it's an unlit stretch of motorway, you can't see the cameras (the speed limit signs are, mostly, lit). In practice it would seem to undermine the function they're installed for (protect the workforce and to mitigate against the "assumed" lower impact resistance of the temporary barriers).
If there is clear signage and you are doing no more than the limit then nothing else should be of concern.
Please read the OP and their latest post. They are advocating what the gov preaches "safety" and I've posted examples where grey cam were forced to be changed to yellow cams. The OP was just highlighting a concern and concern shared by many me included, IE, if speed cams as "safety cams" as often touted by the gov, to increase safety, why not indeed make them more visible in areas where safety is of concern.
Many thanks
The highlighted bit, It should not matter but it does. Di you read fully my previous post and what thr gov states re speed cams aka by the proper name of SAFTEY CAMS. This is why they are painted yell and I gave you a good example of highways forced to change them from grey to yellow, why was that?
FYI, and I reiterate for your benefit, in the over 40 years of driving and always having cars inc some very cable ones, I've never had a speeding or any other ticket. Before the implementation of 5/20mph speed limits drove within the limits of what I could see as a speed limit is just that a LIMIT and not the max speed you need to travel at.
As the cams are Safet Cams - often sited where there it is deemed a higher risk - it is indeed and would be excellent practice to highlight the safety cams so people like us that are new to an area are helped with warning from dropping quickly form miles of possible 70mph to 30/etc.
Should you still disagree with the OP and me, that is indeed your prerogative but the point of safety cams is just that so why not highly the tiny cams.
Many thanks
Oh and the painted yellow thing is only because the AA moaned and "felt" motorists were being conned. Nothing to do with safety, just motorists wanting to speed and get away with it.
Where does the governement not refer to them as speed cameras?
Speeding penalties - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera locations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed camera data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Speed cameras on Smart motorways - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
TfL use the term safety camera but not the government
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
I can't speak for you but it helps me, the OP an millions of others.
Ask yourself this - why did the gov agree to change the gey cams to yellow! Yes it is self-explanatory otherwise they painted the very dark grey and hid them behind trees/bins etc as done so in some countries.
When speed cams are chatted about and fines, they are often referred to as Saftey cams. Why is it that most cams are as per my previous post. That's right it to enhance 'Safety.' Why are speed cams at some roads works? Yes, correct to enhance safety.
I live in London and trust me friend, the cams are everywhere.
Re why the gov refer them to as "speed cams" - here, read below and this respected source that covers the whole of London
is calling them "Safety cams"
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/safety-enforcement-cameras
Thanks
I've never come across anyone else talking about "safety cams" they are always referred to as speed cameras or traffic light cameras.
I also linked to that TfL page which discusses a mixture of different types of safety cameras including speed cameras, red light cameras and average camera systems. They still refer to speed cameras as one type of safety camera.
Not sure why that information helps "millions of others". If you do the speed limit then you won't get caught, thats all anyone needs to know.
Even good drivers can have an accident and painting them yellow is just another safety measure/warning to catch people's eye oat dangerous junctions, danger spots etc.
Pointing out that drivers need yellow cameras to behave safely actually makes me thing more cameras should be harder to see. Drivers should be following the speed limit even if they don't think they are being watched.
So you are advocating these safet cams are hidden which will result in more death and destruction.
Why on earth do you think the mas are painted yellow Yes it's to double warn, head-up to even good drivers like me in an area we may not be familiar with that place is an accident blackspot and or extra hazards.
Those crims that drive around with no regard to the law, or rules are often the main culprits of destruction on our roads and pavements
Are you saying that lawful/careful drivers are not guided/aided by warning signs and yell cam signs?
I've told you and then even posted a link for a highly respected source re safety cams. I've told you how painting them yellow reduces accidents,. I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow.
TBH, I'm not sure why you are advocating hiding speed cams at accident blackspots and this is where speed cams are sited.
When driving, I am always careful and signs, and yellow cams makes a safer driver like me safer.
Many thanks for giving me the opportunity to back up the OP.
Enjoy your weekend
Why would a council worker need such qualifications?5 -
One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
1 -
One answer for @GrumpyDilGrumpyDil said:One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
Please read my previous posts, etc. as it is all in there.
Thanks
0 -
But can a driver be convicted of a speeding offence based on the evidence of a camera which (1) isn't painted yellow, and (2) doesn't have camera warning signs?diystarter7 said:
One answer for @GrumpyDilGrumpyDil said:One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
Please read my previous posts, etc. as it is all in there.
Thanks0 -
Yes. And it happens every day.Manxman_in_exile said:
But can a driver be convicted of a speeding offence based on the evidence of a camera which (1) isn't painted yellow, and (2) doesn't have camera warning signs?diystarter7 said:
One answer for @GrumpyDilGrumpyDil said:One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
Please read my previous posts, etc. as it is all in there.
Thanks
Because, as pointed out ad nauseam above, there is NO law requiring signs or yellow paint.2 -
Could I ask for your forbearance? Why not take this view of yours to the Flame Pit section of Peppipoo. There are actual lawyers on there - there are some of them here also. All the convictions of North wales police disguising cameras as horse boxes were safe. The safety of the convictions has nothing to do with the debate about whether the cameras are there for safety or not, or whether they are a deterrent or punishment. I suspect the Department of Justice sees the punishment of points as being the main deterrent, as the law hasn't been changed to make yellow paint a LEGAL necessity.diystarter7 said:
One answer for @GrumpyDilGrumpyDil said:One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
Please read my previous posts, etc. as it is all in there.
Thanks0 -
Is that something in the UK?ontheroad1970 said:
Could I ask for your forbearance? Why not take this view of yours to the Flame Pit section of Peppipoo. There are actual lawyers on there - there are some of them here also. All the convictions of North wales police disguising cameras as horse boxes were safe. The safety of the convictions has nothing to do with the debate about whether the cameras are there for safety or not, or whether they are a deterrent or punishment. I suspect the Department of Justice sees the punishment of points as being the main deterrent, as the law hasn't been changed to make yellow paint a LEGAL necessity.diystarter7 said:
One answer for @GrumpyDilGrumpyDil said:One question for @diystarter7.
How does this work?
" I've told you how the gov forced the hand of the gov to ensure all speed cams are painted yellow."
Please read my previous posts, etc. as it is all in there.
Thanks
I bet @diystarter7 won't respond.0 -
0
-
This topic goes on and on and on. Not happy contact your Councillor and MP - doubt you will get anywhere but as someone has said ***the law hasn't been changed to make yellow paint a LEGAL necessity.***I read some time ago that the M1 was fully covered by speed cameras and speeds were monitored - whilst they were not live for prosecution action was taken about persistent offenders - the guys with lead boot.I know it is a rather hackneyed comment but if not sure what the limit is **slow down** Never mind what others do you are driving your cars not theirs. It won't make a great deal of difference to your arrival time.
1
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