Lies lies lies

Scorpio33

GiantTCR said:

Asking for a friend who's going through a rough divorce.

My friend and his wife are divorcing, they have a child.

They are going through mediation and they seemed to be in agreement for a 50-50 split of the assets and 50-50 custody of the child.

The wife just found out that in case of 50-50 custody, she will not be getting any child maintenance payments so, all of a sudden, she changed her tune.

She sent a very weird email to my friend, full of lies. She's now accusing him of being verbally violent and abusive towards her and doing so in front of the child. She's accusing him of having anger management issues. And a lot of other lies. She's saying now that the custody should not be split 50-50 because it's not in the child's best interest.

Now, you would think that any person with common sense (let alone a judge) would see how the wife's tune changed right after she found out she may be getting nothing for child maintenance. But, how do you think a judge would see the situation? At the end of the day, it's just her word against my friend's, but she's throwing some very heavy accusations. How can she get away with it? Can my friend sue her for slander? 

Ignoring the bickering on this thread, the advise I would give on this is:

If this is a new thing (the wife changing tune), then a judge would see through it. It would be very difficult to proove something that isn't true and if anything, false accusations would even give the judge a reason to go against the wife in terms of asset split. So if anything, she won't be getting away with anything.

Can the friend sue? Not really, no as they haven't suffered a financial loss.

However, the split of assets not being 50-50 can be decided on by a judge and its usually whats in the best interests of the child. That is to say, the wife could get more of the assets if her earning power (not necessarily earnings) is lower.

If I was in your position, I would keep out of it, but if you insist on being involved, advise the friend that a less than 50-50 split agreed outside the court could well be more beneficial for them, depending on relative earning powers and thier respective abilities to support the children.

TBagpuss

If your friend hasn't already done so, they should speak to a solicitor.

Judges are , on the whole, fairly good at spotting lies, however, it should be remembered that when looking at arrangments for a child the issue is about what is in the childn's best interests, not about being fair to the parents. 

In the short term, a court will err on the side of caution, e.g. decline to order contact between a child and a parent who has been accused of being violent towards them, however, they can direct that there should be a fact finding hearing to determine the trust of any claims beforemaking a decision about the split of care.

If the motvation is money, your friend could try offering to make voluntary payments / agreeing that the other parent can claim the child benefit, at least in the short term. (if their financial position would allow them to do so. This would feel very unfair but somtimes loking for a practical   solution can be a sensible way forward, and of course if they were then able to agree shared care and set up a pattern of split care, it would be harder for the other parent to then resurrect their claims.

Also - as you are talking about a friend,do bear in mind that you don't know the truth - while people can, and do, make false claims for finacial reasons, equally, people who have genuinely been the vctims of abusive behvaiour may take time to get to the point where they feel able to say so, and it's not uncommon for people going through a divorce or separation to relaise that things they had got used to or put up with are actually inappropriate or abusive, so it's possible that there was some truth to the claims but that the person making them has only just started to relaise that they can speak out. 

Discussions made in mediation are privaledged so I don't think that your friend could sue for slander over things said in mediation, and it's a complex and highly specialised area of law - I strongly suspect that they would be better off just setting fire to a heap of money for all the satisfaction they'd get from a slander or libel claim but they would have to get proper advice if they were serious about pursuing it. 

Within family proceedings, behaviour doesn't normally change a finacial settlement inless t has a direct finacial impact or is very serious,so neither making, nor being the victim of, false allegations (or indeed truthful ones)  would be likely to affect the outcome of  financial proceedings. 

GiantTCR

TBagpuss said:

If the motvatin is money, your firend could try offering to make voluntary payments / agreeing that the other parent can claim the child benefit, at least in the short term. (if their finacial position would allow them to do so. his would feel very unfiar but somtimes loking for a practica aolution can be a sensible wway forward, and of course if they were then able to agree shred care and set up a pattern of split care, it would be harder for the other parent to then resurrect their claims.

Ok, genuine question: why would a parent agree to make voluntary payments to the other parent if, according to the child maintenance service, no payments are due if child care is shared equally between the 2?

Like, one parent is blackmailing the other with false claims so let's give them money voluntarily. Not only the parent making false claims doesn't get punished, they also make financial gain from the situation. This sounds absurd to me. Is this how the system works?

MalMonroe

My advice is - let this couple sort out their own divorce. It is natural to want to help a friend but sometimes, we can't. We can listen, though.

Whether or not anyone is telling lies, nobody can ever really know.

I've been in the position where my husband wanted to leave home and divorce because he found someone he thought was better. He paid more maintenance than he had to for our young daughter because he felt so guilty. That was years ago and he's now onto his fourth marriage. Whether or not he's now satisfied and happy with life, who knows?

I'm afraid, OP, that you have no idea what has transpired between this couple, or what your friend's or his wife's emotional states are. When feelings are raw, people say a lot of things that may not be true. 

The very best thing you can do for your friend is to listen to him, he's obviously very hurt. And comfort him, agree with him and then let him get on with the divorce. It's difficult, I know, for couples to even try to be amicable sometimes but as matters unfold (and if they do have to go to court) things will get sorted out. This is their battle though. And with the best will in the world you are never going to know exactly what happened. I was very grateful that when my marriage broke down I had some really good friends I could turn to. More than one, so I could spread my misery around. (Bet they loved me!) 

They loved each other once and I always think it's really sad when relationships fail but sometimes they just do. But it's their relationship and they will have to get on with it themselves. Nothing you can do. Except be a sounding board. Good friends are worth their weight in gold for divorcing couples. Just try not to sling too much mud, that's not helpful. 

pinkshoes

GiantTCR said:

Ok, genuine question: why would a parent agree to make voluntary payments to the other parent if, according to the child maintenance service, no payments are due if child care is shared equally between the 2?

Like, one parent is blackmailing the other with false claims so let's give them money voluntarily. Not only the parent making false claims doesn't get punished, they also make financial gain from the situation. This sounds absurd to me. Is this how the system works?

The no maintenance when care is 50/50  is very recent thing. It used to be that the higher earner would pay maintenance to the lower earner even when the care was 50/50, because that way you don't end up with the child having a rich parent week and a poor parent week. 

Nowadays with equal right, both male and female doing 50/50 childcare have equal opportunity to go out and earn full time. 

But the feasibility of 50/50 parenting needs to be questioned here. Is that REALLY best for the child?? It's a 7 day week, so are they going to sleep til 2am at one parents house then be collected at 2am for the rest of the night??

Or are they going to have a week each and then realise it's impossible to fit child activities in when both have different working hours, so the child ends up missing out every other week on something?

50/50 is a nice idea but is generally not a practical solution in the best interests of the child.

rumpetroll

I disagree with pinkshoes about 50/50 not being practical, but it completely depends on the situation, some may do a 7 on, 7 off split but there are other ways of doing a 50/50 split that can work well, especially if the parents have different working patterns from each other. It also depends on the age of the child, and in fact a lot depends on the age of the child which I believe hasn't been disclosed, if it's a very young child then the arrangements are likely to be different from a teenager.

As to why someone would make voluntary payments to the other parent, again, it's situational, but in general it'll be for what's best for the child, my ex and I have always had our own personal arrangement on child maintenance which has no relation to the CSA figures. It may be that your friend expects the other parent to buy all the childs clothes and school wear etc in which case it would make sense to make payments, alternatively your friend could offer to buy all school wear and various other bits in lieu of a regular monetary contribution.

I would strongly advise that it is settled out of court but if both parties are determined to get their own way then it's likely that it will end up in court, which can be very costly (10's of thousands) or they could represent themselves in which case not that much. If there are allegations of abuse towards the child then the court will insist on an investigation/assessment in to this and the result of that will determine things. So assumming your friend has nothing to hide then the report will give the all clear and then the courts will look at both parents' statements and determine on the child arrangements that they think are best. At court, it's probable that your friend (if male and partner is female) will not get 50/50 care of the child.

You should also be aware that without a court order then your friends ex could withhold access to the child and his only recourse then would be to apply to the court, she may decide to withhold access if she has (genuine or not) concerns of abuse to the child.

As much as your friend wants a 50/50 split, if the ex is adament not to then it may be in his best interests to find some kind of agreement that works for him.

zagfles

Pollycat said:

zagfles said:

Pollycat said:

GiantTCR said:

Pollycat said:

Purbeck14 said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR sforaid:

Pollycat said:

What are their financial circumstances?
Do both work?
Earn similar amounts?
How long have they been married?
How old is the child?
What are their pension provisions? These will go into the pot.
Do they own a house (with or without a mortgage)? Or rent?
Can either of them afford the repayments?
Can either of them afford to buy the other out?
When they 'agreed' the 50/50 split of assets and childcare, what were the planned arrangements?

And probably lots more questions.

You'd better serve your friend by helping him do some research rather than encouraging him to sue his wife for slander on top of what may be an expensive divorce. 

Yes as far as I know every financial detail (house, salaries, savings, pensions) were disclosed in one of the mediation sessions and the agreement both verbal and in writing (emails) was for a 50-50 split of all of the assets.

The wife also verbally agreed on a 50-50 custody split and my friend and her were working on a few options for how to split the custody like days of the week/pick ups and so on.

Everything was going well until she realised that in case of 50-50 custody, my friend wouldn't have to pay anything for child maintenance (it says it clearly on the gov.uk website).

That's when things escalated. That's when all of a sudden my friend allegedly became an abusive husband who shouldn't have 50-50 custody. Seems very strange and convenient that these things are only coming up a couple of days after the wife found out she may not get the money she thought she was entitled to.

My friend has always been trying to avoid going to court as he knows how costly these things can be and they could both use the money to buy their new homes rather than pay legal fees. But if the wife will want more than 50% custody, it'll be court time and nobody wins.

Could you post a link please. I'm either on the wrong thing or have skim read and missed it because I don't see it here.

https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

So from what you've said your friend is a higher earner than his ex, is  getting 50% of assets and won't be paying child maintainance. I can understand why is ex wife to be isn't happy. 

How old is child? If you could also answer the questions that I think Pollycat has also posted such as has wife compromised her own career/earnings duet o taking on lion's share of childcare during their marriage?  

From the link you posted, if you click on the calculator link you'll see a page where it says in bullet points that you won't have to pay anything if you equally share caring responsibility for the child.

Yes I can understand why his wife isn't happy. She should be getting more than half of the assets as my friend earns more.

I just find it curious how she had agreed to equal custody split during mediation but after realising that she may be getting nothing for child maintenance NOW AND JUST NOW my friend has become this abusive husband...

Ok thanks, I've seen it now.

Consider this

'I'm a lousy husband. I've been verbally/emotionally/[psychologically abusing my wife for years. It's not a face I show anyone else though, so they wouldn't believe her if she said anything. No scars to show I just say she's lying. She's never exposed me before why would she be believed. I have some enablers, people usually call them friends. They always believe me cos I show them my good side. We're splitting up. We've gone to mediation, by some luck of the draw I got it suggested there that despite me earning more, we split everything 50/50 including the child residency and this also means  I have no maintenance to pay. Woohoo I don't want solicitors and courts involved because they might tell my ex wife that she's not getting a fair deal, so I'll put my best face on and say it's because I don't want to waste money that I could spend on my child. I'm such a charmer people believe me. The problem is on discovering there'll be no maintenance  my ex isn't happy. She's saying exactly what I've done to her, so I'm turning it round, to say it's her lying after all there's no proof and my enablers I mean  mates all believe me'

Now I'm not saying your friend IS the above, but consider it a possibility. Someone like that came into a close relatives life. Not exactly the same because they were a lot younger. To my shame I was the enabler. I believed the other person against my relative because they were charming, manipulative and a very good liar. Until some things started not adding up and I started digging and was shocked by what I discovered and uncovered and found out  exactly which one wasn't telling the truth. 

For me,  ok I'm suspicious due to the above happening but red flags rang at the mediation that is verbally agreed at 50%. Wife needs legal advice and pronto. 

We can all invent scenarios based on our own experiences and prejudices, but I'd say this one falls flat because why would the wife even consider 50/50 custody ie leaving her children half the time with an abuser?

Why do abused people do many things that they do, including staying in the relationship, keeping quiet and returning to them. 
Not usually to someone they publically declare as an abuser? Or is your experience different?
I've pointed out that my view is biased.  The wife still needs legal advice. 

Well quite possibly, but she's not the one asking for advice.

No but in point of fact neither is the husband, it is the husband's "friend". Are the couple  aware that their situation is being discussed here and assumptions being drawn as to truth of the situation by the OP? 

zagfles said:

Purbeck14 said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR sforaid:

Pollycat said:

What are their financial circumstances?
Do both work?
Earn similar amounts?
How long have they been married?
How old is the child?
What are their pension provisions? These will go into the pot.
Do they own a house (with or without a mortgage)? Or rent?
Can either of them afford the repayments?
Can either of them afford to buy the other out?
When they 'agreed' the 50/50 split of assets and childcare, what were the planned arrangements?

And probably lots more questions.

You'd better serve your friend by helping him do some research rather than encouraging him to sue his wife for slander on top of what may be an expensive divorce. 

Yes as far as I know every financial detail (house, salaries, savings, pensions) were disclosed in one of the mediation sessions and the agreement both verbal and in writing (emails) was for a 50-50 split of all of the assets.

The wife also verbally agreed on a 50-50 custody split and my friend and her were working on a few options for how to split the custody like days of the week/pick ups and so on.

Everything was going well until she realised that in case of 50-50 custody, my friend wouldn't have to pay anything for child maintenance (it says it clearly on the gov.uk website).

That's when things escalated. That's when all of a sudden my friend allegedly became an abusive husband who shouldn't have 50-50 custody. Seems very strange and convenient that these things are only coming up a couple of days after the wife found out she may not get the money she thought she was entitled to.

My friend has always been trying to avoid going to court as he knows how costly these things can be and they could both use the money to buy their new homes rather than pay legal fees. But if the wife will want more than 50% custody, it'll be court time and nobody wins.

Could you post a link please. I'm either on the wrong thing or have skim read and missed it because I don't see it here.

https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

So from what you've said your friend is a higher earner than his ex, is  getting 50% of assets and won't be paying child maintainance. I can understand why is ex wife to be isn't happy. 

How old is child? If you could also answer the questions that I think Pollycat has also posted such as has wife compromised her own career/earnings duet o taking on lion's share of childcare during their marriage?  

From the link you posted, if you click on the calculator link you'll see a page where it says in bullet points that you won't have to pay anything if you equally share caring responsibility for the child.

Yes I can understand why his wife isn't happy. She should be getting more than half of the assets as my friend earns more.

I just find it curious how she had agreed to equal custody split during mediation but after realising that she may be getting nothing for child maintenance NOW AND JUST NOW my friend has become this abusive husband...

Ok thanks, I've seen it now.

Consider this

'I'm a lousy husband. I've been verbally/emotionally/[psychologically abusing my wife for years. It's not a face I show anyone else though, so they wouldn't believe her if she said anything. No scars to show I just say she's lying. She's never exposed me before why would she be believed. I have some enablers, people usually call them friends. They always believe me cos I show them my good side. We're splitting up. We've gone to mediation, by some luck of the draw I got it suggested there that despite me earning more, we split everything 50/50 including the child residency and this also means  I have no maintenance to pay. Woohoo I don't want solicitors and courts involved because they might tell my ex wife that she's not getting a fair deal, so I'll put my best face on and say it's because I don't want to waste money that I could spend on my child. I'm such a charmer people believe me. The problem is on discovering there'll be no maintenance  my ex isn't happy. She's saying exactly what I've done to her, so I'm turning it round, to say it's her lying after all there's no proof and my enablers I mean  mates all believe me'

Now I'm not saying your friend IS the above, but consider it a possibility. Someone like that came into a close relatives life. Not exactly the same because they were a lot younger. To my shame I was the enabler. I believed the other person against my relative because they were charming, manipulative and a very good liar. Until some things started not adding up and I started digging and was shocked by what I discovered and uncovered and found out  exactly which one wasn't telling the truth. 

For me,  ok I'm suspicious due to the above happening but red flags rang at the mediation that is verbally agreed at 50%. Wife needs legal advice and pronto. 

We can all invent scenarios based on our own experiences and prejudices, but I'd say this one falls flat because why would the wife even consider 50/50 custody ie leaving her children half the time with an abuser?

Why do abused people do many things that they do, including staying in the relationship, keeping quiet and returning to them. 
Not usually to someone they publically declare as an abuser? Or is your experience different?
I've pointed out that my view is biased.  The wife still needs legal advice. 

Well quite possibly, but she's not the one asking for advice.

No but in point of fact neither is the husband, it is the husband's "friend". Are the couple  aware that their situation is being discussed here and assumptions being drawn as to truth of the situation by the OP? 

Happens all the time, and sometimes with named couples (think celebrity cases) rather than anonymous couples. People often ask for advice on behalf of others, nothing wrong with that IMO, as long as the people being discussed remain anonymous, and the scenario isn't likely to be unique enough to identify individuals.

If a friend of mine - however well-meaning - was discussing my personal/private life on a public forum without my permission, they would be an ex-friend.

If they were giving out your name and/or details that make the people involved recognisable, I'd agree with you.

Otherwise, no harm.

Also, I can guarantee you that some of your friends (or shall I say soon to be ex friends) have talked about you to some other people at some point in life. So I really hope you have any friends left if that's where you draw the line 😁

Comparing a friend having a bit of a face-to-face gossip with somebody else about me to a 'friend' giving out details of a relationship on social media is like comparing apples and elephants.

Yeah, one's discussing a named person, another's anonymously discussing an unidentified person. You've been around here long enough, haven't you noticed it's quite common to discuss "friend's" or even husbands/wives/parents etc on here? Have a look at the top page of threads on this board, just the headings. People discussing their friend, mum, dad, grandma etc.

Why are you even replying to this thread if you think that's so wrong to discuss other peoples' relationships in social media?

You can't see the difference between a member having a moan about her husband (or kids or in-laws) and a 'friend' who - quite possibly - hasn't even asked if it's OK to put details on a public forum?

Oh I see, so it's OK to have a "moan" about someone else on a public forum if they're your husband (or kids or in-laws) but not if they're your friend? Or your friend's wife? Is that the rule? Right. Got it. Maybe you should get MSE towers to put that in a sticky.

If it's 2 people gossiping, maybe a few people will overhear.
How many people will read this thread?
1.4k so far and counting.

Including internet bots. Maybe they'll identify the couple?

If you've posted the information yourself, you've chosen what details to share.
The only person who may be upset is the other person in the relationship.

So upsetting one person is OK but not two? Is that another one of your rules?

You've been around here long enough to know that you can't dictate what threads people reply to.

Indeed you can't. If people want to moan about their friend, or their friend's wife, you're not going to stop them

zagfles

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR sforaid:

Pollycat said:

What are their financial circumstances?
Do both work?
Earn similar amounts?
How long have they been married?
How old is the child?
What are their pension provisions? These will go into the pot.
Do they own a house (with or without a mortgage)? Or rent?
Can either of them afford the repayments?
Can either of them afford to buy the other out?
When they 'agreed' the 50/50 split of assets and childcare, what were the planned arrangements?

And probably lots more questions.

You'd better serve your friend by helping him do some research rather than encouraging him to sue his wife for slander on top of what may be an expensive divorce. 

Yes as far as I know every financial detail (house, salaries, savings, pensions) were disclosed in one of the mediation sessions and the agreement both verbal and in writing (emails) was for a 50-50 split of all of the assets.

The wife also verbally agreed on a 50-50 custody split and my friend and her were working on a few options for how to split the custody like days of the week/pick ups and so on.

Everything was going well until she realised that in case of 50-50 custody, my friend wouldn't have to pay anything for child maintenance (it says it clearly on the gov.uk website).

That's when things escalated. That's when all of a sudden my friend allegedly became an abusive husband who shouldn't have 50-50 custody. Seems very strange and convenient that these things are only coming up a couple of days after the wife found out she may not get the money she thought she was entitled to.

My friend has always been trying to avoid going to court as he knows how costly these things can be and they could both use the money to buy their new homes rather than pay legal fees. But if the wife will want more than 50% custody, it'll be court time and nobody wins.

Could you post a link please. I'm either on the wrong thing or have skim read and missed it because I don't see it here.

https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

So from what you've said your friend is a higher earner than his ex, is  getting 50% of assets and won't be paying child maintainance. I can understand why is ex wife to be isn't happy. 

How old is child? If you could also answer the questions that I think Pollycat has also posted such as has wife compromised her own career/earnings duet o taking on lion's share of childcare during their marriage?  

From the link you posted, if you click on the calculator link you'll see a page where it says in bullet points that you won't have to pay anything if you equally share caring responsibility for the child.

Yes I can understand why his wife isn't happy. She should be getting more than half of the assets as my friend earns more.

I just find it curious how she had agreed to equal custody split during mediation but after realising that she may be getting nothing for child maintenance NOW AND JUST NOW my friend has become this abusive husband...

Ok thanks, I've seen it now.

Consider this

'I'm a lousy husband. I've been verbally/emotionally/[psychologically abusing my wife for years. It's not a face I show anyone else though, so they wouldn't believe her if she said anything. No scars to show I just say she's lying. She's never exposed me before why would she be believed. I have some enablers, people usually call them friends. They always believe me cos I show them my good side. We're splitting up. We've gone to mediation, by some luck of the draw I got it suggested there that despite me earning more, we split everything 50/50 including the child residency and this also means  I have no maintenance to pay. Woohoo I don't want solicitors and courts involved because they might tell my ex wife that she's not getting a fair deal, so I'll put my best face on and say it's because I don't want to waste money that I could spend on my child. I'm such a charmer people believe me. The problem is on discovering there'll be no maintenance  my ex isn't happy. She's saying exactly what I've done to her, so I'm turning it round, to say it's her lying after all there's no proof and my enablers I mean  mates all believe me'

Now I'm not saying your friend IS the above, but consider it a possibility. Someone like that came into a close relatives life. Not exactly the same because they were a lot younger. To my shame I was the enabler. I believed the other person against my relative because they were charming, manipulative and a very good liar. Until some things started not adding up and I started digging and was shocked by what I discovered and uncovered and found out  exactly which one wasn't telling the truth. 

For me,  ok I'm suspicious due to the above happening but red flags rang at the mediation that is verbally agreed at 50%. Wife needs legal advice and pronto. 

We can all invent scenarios based on our own experiences and prejudices, but I'd say this one falls flat because why would the wife even consider 50/50 custody ie leaving her children half the time with an abuser?

Why do abused people do many things that they do, including staying in the relationship, keeping quiet and returning to them. 
Not usually to someone they publically declare as an abuser? Or is your experience different?
I've pointed out that my view is biased.  The wife still needs legal advice. 

Well quite possibly, but she's not the one asking for advice.

The husband isn't either. The OP as said that s/he is husband's friend, entitled the thread Lies, Lies, Lies and asked the below (sorry quoting has seemed to go haywire) 

"I just find it curious how she had agreed to equal custody split during mediation but after realising that she may be getting nothing for child maintenance NOW AND JUST NOW my friend has become this abusive husband..."

I've given a POSSIBLE answer for the above, stated why my suspicions are as they are. I might be completely wrong. 
 

OP is asking for advice for his/her friend. Not the friend's wife.

And??? You want me not to make the suggestion to the OP that his friend is possibly the one lying. when that's the question he's asking.

There's another suggestion further up has the ex found his got someone else and that's why she's thrown accusations, also a possibility. 

I realise that he's unlikely to say 'well actually mate, your wife needs legal advice just in case you're trying to prove a fast one'

but that's exactly what she needs. If a solicitor/court agrees that 50% of assets and residency is a fair split then that's all transparent.  

 If I was the OP I'd stay out of it due to the above. 

Sorry I'm confused. How else is the wife going to hear your advice, other than through the OP? Unless she happens to be reading this board (unlikely as it's a fairly obscure corner of the internet - this board I mean, not MSE). Then you say the OP should stay out of it?

Re your own situation, my friend's ex also became a house husband with his new partner and her daughter. He did it to avoid paying CM to my friend. That much is clear, he had tried every angle to wriggle out or reduce his payments first, some of which succeeded some didn't so took redundancy and then stayed at home  until the kids became adults. They are 26 and 28 now and my friend still hasn't recovered financially from that time. That's why people may have had the opinion they did about your own situation , sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're right. 

Just briefly on the last point, without wanting to derail this thread even more, he became a househusband because it made sense in his new family (girlfriend earning far more) and he offered full time care of his daughter from previous relationship. His ex was in a full time job but preferred to put her daughter in childcare/after school clubs than have him look after daughter. He was pilloried by many people at the time for wanting to provide care rather than do what blokes are supposed to do and get out to work and provide cash, but what daughter missed out on was love rather than cash and never really forgiven mother, she's now late teens and lives with her dad by choice.

zagfles

[Deleted User] said:

zagfles said:

[Deleted User] said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

zagfles said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR said:

Spendless said:

GiantTCR sforaid:

Pollycat said:

What are their financial circumstances?
Do both work?
Earn similar amounts?
How long have they been married?
How old is the child?
What are their pension provisions? These will go into the pot.
Do they own a house (with or without a mortgage)? Or rent?
Can either of them afford the repayments?
Can either of them afford to buy the other out?
When they 'agreed' the 50/50 split of assets and childcare, what were the planned arrangements?

And probably lots more questions.

You'd better serve your friend by helping him do some research rather than encouraging him to sue his wife for slander on top of what may be an expensive divorce. 

Yes as far as I know every financial detail (house, salaries, savings, pensions) were disclosed in one of the mediation sessions and the agreement both verbal and in writing (emails) was for a 50-50 split of all of the assets.

The wife also verbally agreed on a 50-50 custody split and my friend and her were working on a few options for how to split the custody like days of the week/pick ups and so on.

Everything was going well until she realised that in case of 50-50 custody, my friend wouldn't have to pay anything for child maintenance (it says it clearly on the gov.uk website).

That's when things escalated. That's when all of a sudden my friend allegedly became an abusive husband who shouldn't have 50-50 custody. Seems very strange and convenient that these things are only coming up a couple of days after the wife found out she may not get the money she thought she was entitled to.

My friend has always been trying to avoid going to court as he knows how costly these things can be and they could both use the money to buy their new homes rather than pay legal fees. But if the wife will want more than 50% custody, it'll be court time and nobody wins.

Could you post a link please. I'm either on the wrong thing or have skim read and missed it because I don't see it here.

https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

So from what you've said your friend is a higher earner than his ex, is  getting 50% of assets and won't be paying child maintainance. I can understand why is ex wife to be isn't happy. 

How old is child? If you could also answer the questions that I think Pollycat has also posted such as has wife compromised her own career/earnings duet o taking on lion's share of childcare during their marriage?  

From the link you posted, if you click on the calculator link you'll see a page where it says in bullet points that you won't have to pay anything if you equally share caring responsibility for the child.

Yes I can understand why his wife isn't happy. She should be getting more than half of the assets as my friend earns more.

I just find it curious how she had agreed to equal custody split during mediation but after realising that she may be getting nothing for child maintenance NOW AND JUST NOW my friend has become this abusive husband...

Ok thanks, I've seen it now.

Consider this

'I'm a lousy husband. I've been verbally/emotionally/[psychologically abusing my wife for years. It's not a face I show anyone else though, so they wouldn't believe her if she said anything. No scars to show I just say she's lying. She's never exposed me before why would she be believed. I have some enablers, people usually call them friends. They always believe me cos I show them my good side. We're splitting up. We've gone to mediation, by some luck of the draw I got it suggested there that despite me earning more, we split everything 50/50 including the child residency and this also means  I have no maintenance to pay. Woohoo I don't want solicitors and courts involved because they might tell my ex wife that she's not getting a fair deal, so I'll put my best face on and say it's because I don't want to waste money that I could spend on my child. I'm such a charmer people believe me. The problem is on discovering there'll be no maintenance  my ex isn't happy. She's saying exactly what I've done to her, so I'm turning it round, to say it's her lying after all there's no proof and my enablers I mean  mates all believe me'

Now I'm not saying your friend IS the above, but consider it a possibility. Someone like that came into a close relatives life. Not exactly the same because they were a lot younger. To my shame I was the enabler. I believed the other person against my relative because they were charming, manipulative and a very good liar. Until some things started not adding up and I started digging and was shocked by what I discovered and uncovered and found out  exactly which one wasn't telling the truth. 

For me,  ok I'm suspicious due to the above happening but red flags rang at the mediation that is verbally agreed at 50%. Wife needs legal advice and pronto. 

We can all invent scenarios based on our own experiences and prejudices, but I'd say this one falls flat because why would the wife even consider 50/50 custody ie leaving her children half the time with an abuser?

Why do abused people do many things that they do, including staying in the relationship, keeping quiet and returning to them. 
Not usually to someone they publically declare as an abuser? Or is your experience different?
I've pointed out that my view is biased.  The wife still needs legal advice. 

Well quite possibly, but she's not the one asking for advice.

No but in point of fact neither is the husband, it is the husband's "friend". Are the couple  aware that their situation is being discussed here and assumptions being drawn as to truth of the situation by the OP? 

Happens all the time, and sometimes with named couples (think celebrity cases) rather than anonymous couples. People often ask for advice on behalf of others, nothing wrong with that IMO, as long as the people being discussed remain anonymous, and the scenario isn't likely to be unique enough to identify individuals.

Yes it does, but since the OP has already decided who is 'in the right' ( the heading "lies, lies, lies" suggests a decided opinion which may or may not be based on actual facts) really they don't want advice as such, more like a confirmation that suits their own bias.  UNLESS the OP has been in the marital home for the length of the marriage they really don't know the true circumstances. Friends are usually biased, it's natural, but this is one of those cases where emotional involvement may hinder rather than help the person who needs the advice, which IS what he's paying the solicitor for. 

OP clearly isn't asking who we think is "in the right". He/she is obviously telling us that - and asking what to do about it.

zagfles

GiantTCR said:

zagfles said:

Yeah, one's discussing a named person, another's anonymously discussing an unidentified person. You've been around here long enough, haven't you noticed it's quite common to discuss "friend's" or even husbands/wives/parents etc on here? Have a look at the top page of threads on this board, just the headings. People discussing their friend, mum, dad, grandma etc.

Why are you even replying to this thread if you think that's so wrong to discuss other peoples' relationships in social media?

I wonder if the replies from some users would have been different if I had portrayed the situation the other way around (husband is the one telling lies...wife is the one making more money...).

The very thought
Watch the knots being tied