Police damage to front door - possibly excessive

diystarter7

lisyloo said:

Quote £1500, have put in a claim to household insurance.

OP
Did you ask the cops?  (I find the chief constables very amenable as having been addressed by a couple of what I perceived as arrogant officers, I did not argue with them went straight to the top and got an apology - in my mind the big boys are pretty fair people)  Your choice it never hurts as its a load of money.
Either way, good luck.

lisyloo

I’ve sent in a standard “contact us”, as you say doesn’t hurt.
Now emailed the chief constable. 

Thanks for the helpful suggestion.

diystarter7

lisyloo said:

I’ve sent in a standard “contact us”, as you say doesn’t hurt.
Now emailed the chief constable. 

Thanks for the helpful suggestion.

No worries but please be prepared for a no as I've found at times it all depends on the person you speak with and or the person that is dealing with one's query.

Ath_Wat

lisyloo said:

I’ve sent in a standard “contact us”, as you say doesn’t hurt.
Now emailed the chief constable. 

Thanks for the helpful suggestion.

I'm afraid the chief constable's PA might be less forthcoming in sending you £1500 than in emailing out a standard "We are sorry if you felt aggrieved by your contact with our officers" letter.

lisyloo

Ath_Wat said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Are door chains actually accessible from the outside - are the door gaps large enough? Wouldn't that defeat their purpose if someone wanted to get in - an easy 'snip' rather than a 'smash'?

If the gaps are large enough to get a bolt-cutter in there, then I'm surprised the services don't use a BC before a battering ram - the time taken must be very similar, and far less chance of injury (and property damage, of course).

Think about what you said there, how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?

In this case SIL was on site with the key from key safe, so door was unlocked.

So you've said. 

so in answer to your question "how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?", in this case the answer is you unlock the door with the available key.
Or are you asking more generally? In which case you wouldn't be able to and therefore that option would be unavailable.

Don't you think that one reason the police didn't turn up with bolt cutters is because someone had told them they had a key?

There's no "squad of officers" trained and equipped for entering premises with minimal damage, and if there were, how long do you think you would have to wait for them?  Generally when they break into premises it is both pre planned and very much against the wishes of the residents.  In a case like this you get whoever is close enough and free to get there.

I like to hear what others have to say, listen and consider it but I’m afraid I don’t agree with you on either point.

on emergency 999 calls I would expect despatch ASAP and not faffing around with equipment depending on what the possibly confused and/or shocked caller said.
also the emergency services would very possibly be coming straight from another call.
on the contrary it could be argued that if someone said “we have a key but there’s a chain on” then the response would be “ok guys let’s take the van with the cutting equipment for this one”.

on the second point, for health with have specific vehicles (ambulances) and specifically trained resources (paramedics) to deal with 999 calls. Where volunteers are used I would expect them to have a very well defined and strict brief about the limited scope of their actions.
for police 999 calls I would expect suitably trained, dressed and equipped officers to turn up. 
this is not only for the benefit of the public but there will be a duty of care to the officers involved and rightly so.
so I don’t agree that Fred the untrained desk sergeant who is used to answering telephones will show up just because he’s closest. I suspect Fred might come off worst if he tried to break down a door that he’s not trained, dressed or equipped to deal with.

I hope that explains better my thinking.

lisyloo

Ath_Wat said:

Olisyloo said:

I’ve sent in a standard “contact us”, as you say doesn’t hurt.
Now emailed the chief constable. 

Thanks for the helpful suggestion.

I'm afraid the chief constable's PA might be less forthcoming in sending you £1500 than in emailing out a standard "We are sorry if you felt aggrieved by your contact with our officers" letter.

I agree with you on this one.
I am fully expecting a no.
however I’d like to be able to tell my Dad and the extremely embarrassed person who called the emergency services that I have tried that avenue.
FYI - I have totally supported that person in their actions.

There is also a teeny weeny chance that the response is “last week we equipped all our emergency responders with bulk cutters, someone screwed up, have £1500”.

Infinitesimally unlikely but I like to know I’ve done everything I can.

Ath_Wat

lisyloo said:

Ath_Wat said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Are door chains actually accessible from the outside - are the door gaps large enough? Wouldn't that defeat their purpose if someone wanted to get in - an easy 'snip' rather than a 'smash'?

If the gaps are large enough to get a bolt-cutter in there, then I'm surprised the services don't use a BC before a battering ram - the time taken must be very similar, and far less chance of injury (and property damage, of course).

Think about what you said there, how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?

In this case SIL was on site with the key from key safe, so door was unlocked.

So you've said. 

so in answer to your question "how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?", in this case the answer is you unlock the door with the available key.
Or are you asking more generally? In which case you wouldn't be able to and therefore that option would be unavailable.

Don't you think that one reason the police didn't turn up with bolt cutters is because someone had told them they had a key?

There's no "squad of officers" trained and equipped for entering premises with minimal damage, and if there were, how long do you think you would have to wait for them?  Generally when they break into premises it is both pre planned and very much against the wishes of the residents.  In a case like this you get whoever is close enough and free to get there.

I like to hear what others have to say, listen and consider it but I’m afraid I don’t agree with you on either point.

on emergency 999 calls I would expect despatch ASAP and not faffing around with equipment depending on what the possibly confused and/or shocked caller said.
also the emergency services would very possibly be coming straight from another call.
on the contrary it could be argued that if someone said “we have a key but there’s a chain on” then the response would be “ok guys let’s take the van with the cutting equipment for this one”.

on the second point, for health with have specific vehicles (ambulances) and specifically trained resources (paramedics) to deal with 999 calls. Where volunteers are used I would expect them to have a very well defined and strict brief about the limited scope of their actions.
for police 999 calls I would expect suitably trained, dressed and equipped officers to turn up. 
this is not only for the benefit of the public but there will be a duty of care to the officers involved and rightly so.
so I don’t agree that Fred the untrained desk sergeant who is used to answering telephones will show up just because he’s closest. I suspect Fred might come off worst if he tried to break down a door that he’s not trained, dressed or equipped to deal with.

I hope that explains better my thinking.

It doesn't really matter whether you disagree with the fact I have said there is no squad of trained and equipped officers for this purpose, because it is not a matter of opinion. There isn't one.  There isn't a "van with the cutting equipment" on standby either.

If you want there to be one, start campaigning for at least quadrupling taxation so it can be funded.

chris_n

lisyloo said:

Ath_Wat said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Are door chains actually accessible from the outside - are the door gaps large enough? Wouldn't that defeat their purpose if someone wanted to get in - an easy 'snip' rather than a 'smash'?

If the gaps are large enough to get a bolt-cutter in there, then I'm surprised the services don't use a BC before a battering ram - the time taken must be very similar, and far less chance of injury (and property damage, of course).

Think about what you said there, how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?

In this case SIL was on site with the key from key safe, so door was unlocked.

So you've said. 

so in answer to your question "how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?", in this case the answer is you unlock the door with the available key.
Or are you asking more generally? In which case you wouldn't be able to and therefore that option would be unavailable.

Don't you think that one reason the police didn't turn up with bolt cutters is because someone had told them they had a key?

There's no "squad of officers" trained and equipped for entering premises with minimal damage, and if there were, how long do you think you would have to wait for them?  Generally when they break into premises it is both pre planned and very much against the wishes of the residents.  In a case like this you get whoever is close enough and free to get there.

I like to hear what others have to say, listen and consider it but I’m afraid I don’t agree with you on either point.

on emergency 999 calls I would expect despatch ASAP and not faffing around with equipment depending on what the possibly confused and/or shocked caller said.
also the emergency services would very possibly be coming straight from another call.
on the contrary it could be argued that if someone said “we have a key but there’s a chain on” then the response would be “ok guys let’s take the van with the cutting equipment for this one”.

on the second point, for health with have specific vehicles (ambulances) and specifically trained resources (paramedics) to deal with 999 calls. Where volunteers are used I would expect them to have a very well defined and strict brief about the limited scope of their actions.
for police 999 calls I would expect suitably trained, dressed and equipped officers to turn up. 
this is not only for the benefit of the public but there will be a duty of care to the officers involved and rightly so.
so I don’t agree that Fred the untrained desk sergeant who is used to answering telephones will show up just because he’s closest. I suspect Fred might come off worst if he tried to break down a door that he’s not trained, dressed or equipped to deal with.

I hope that explains better my thinking.

Remember there has been an issue in the news where a series of 999 calls couldn't provide a 'squad of officers' (or even a single one) to prevent  a mother and daughter from being murdered while they were on their final 999 call. The police is as stretched as any public service, they certainly don't have squads waiting around for things like this.

diystarter7

Ath_Wat said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

lisyloo said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Are door chains actually accessible from the outside - are the door gaps large enough? Wouldn't that defeat their purpose if someone wanted to get in - an easy 'snip' rather than a 'smash'?

If the gaps are large enough to get a bolt-cutter in there, then I'm surprised the services don't use a BC before a battering ram - the time taken must be very similar, and far less chance of injury (and property damage, of course).

Think about what you said there, how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?

In this case SIL was on site with the key from key safe, so door was unlocked.

So you've said. 

so in answer to your question "how do the open the door to use bolt cutters?", in this case the answer is you unlock the door with the available key.
Or are you asking more generally? In which case you wouldn't be able to and therefore that option would be unavailable.

Don't you think that one reason the police didn't turn up with bolt cutters is because someone had told them they had a key?

There's no "squad of officers" trained and equipped for entering premises with minimal damage, and if there were, how long do you think you would have to wait for them?  Generally when they break into premises it is both pre planned and very much against the wishes of the residents.  In a case like this you get whoever is close enough and free to get there.

What officers could be trained up to remember is: When entering a property where there is a suspected welfare issue, EG nonresponsive person that has been frail - if there is a window in the door near the handle, break that first  (imo it's a bit of common sense)

Good morning

pollypenny

Not wanting to side-track the thread, but the OP mentioned that it was a composite door. I didn't think it was possible to put a chain on a composite door.