Police damage to front door - possibly excessive

lisyloo

the police broke into my Dad’s house on Tuesday.
they had justification to break in as there were concerns about his health (he was found safe asleep in a chair with hearing aids out).

there was a key to the front door but there was a chain on.
instead of cutting the chain the police have damaged both the door and the frame beyond repair.
i understand they need to get in the quickest way possible but

1) is this excessive given the chain could simply have been cut?
2) if it is excessive what’s the procedure for claiming?

thanks

Lomast

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

DanDare999

lisyloo said:

the police broke into my Dad’s house on Tuesday.
they had justification to break in as there were concerns about his health (he was found safe asleep in a chair with hearing aids out).

there was a key to the front door but there was a chain on.
instead of cutting the chain the police have damaged both the door and the frame beyond repair.
i understand they need to get in the quickest way possible but

1) is this excessive given the chain could simply have been cut?
2) if it is excessive what’s the procedure for claiming?

thanks

You need to explain the damage. 

Did they use the key then force the chain causing damage to the door and frame?

DanDare999

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

They probably have access to bolt cutters so yes they do. However we don't know the urgency to gain access. 

twopenny

Yes to photos of the damage. See if anything can be done.
Is it to both door and frame, either or?

On the plus side great that he uses the chain - and if he had a broken hip, stroke, heart attack, hit his head you'd have been grateful for the urgency. Could have saved his life.

k3lvc

DanDare999 said:

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

They probably have access to bolt cutters so yes they do. However we don't know the urgency to gain access. 

Some may have in specific vehicles but unlikely a neighbourhood patrol (at least in my force) is likely to have access to such tools

Speed of access is likely to be dictated by the message passed and potential risk e.g. neighbour calls and says 'haven't seen him for 3 days but can hear TV and see a body but no response' then the door goes in if no other access point - if they turn up and he's responsive but immobile then they may wait for backup to minimise damage

And as for the fire brigade - what justifies the (albeit hidden) charge of c.£1k per call out vs a new/repaired door frame/door ? 

DanDare999

k3lvc said:

DanDare999 said:

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

They probably have access to bolt cutters so yes they do. However we don't know the urgency to gain access. 

Some may have in specific vehicles but unlikely a neighbourhood patrol (at least in my force) is likely to have access to such tools

Speed of access is likely to be dictated by the message passed and potential risk e.g. neighbour calls and says 'haven't seen him for 3 days but can hear TV and see a body but no response' then the door goes in if no other access point - if they turn up and he's responsive but immobile then they may wait for backup to minimise damage

And as for the fire brigade - what justifies the (albeit hidden) charge of c.£1k per call out vs a new/repaired door frame/door ? 

Such a call would usually be dealt with by a response team and I'd be surprised if no one was MOE trained on the team. 

If you work for a force who doesn't operate like that then it's time you told them to get up to date. 

k3lvc

DanDare999 said:

k3lvc said:

DanDare999 said:

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

They probably have access to bolt cutters so yes they do. However we don't know the urgency to gain access. 

Some may have in specific vehicles but unlikely a neighbourhood patrol (at least in my force) is likely to have access to such tools

Speed of access is likely to be dictated by the message passed and potential risk e.g. neighbour calls and says 'haven't seen him for 3 days but can hear TV and see a body but no response' then the door goes in if no other access point - if they turn up and he's responsive but immobile then they may wait for backup to minimise damage

And as for the fire brigade - what justifies the (albeit hidden) charge of c.£1k per call out vs a new/repaired door frame/door ? 

Such a call would usually be dealt with by a response team and I'd be surprised if no one was MOE trained on the team. 

Maybe our 'response teams' should meet - depending on time/day in my force this is just as likely to be a PCSO on foot who calls in backup from a neighbourhood team on a bike - MoE without planning/briefing is a big shoulder/size 9 

DanDare999

k3lvc said:

DanDare999 said:

k3lvc said:

DanDare999 said:

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

They probably have access to bolt cutters so yes they do. However we don't know the urgency to gain access. 

Some may have in specific vehicles but unlikely a neighbourhood patrol (at least in my force) is likely to have access to such tools

Speed of access is likely to be dictated by the message passed and potential risk e.g. neighbour calls and says 'haven't seen him for 3 days but can hear TV and see a body but no response' then the door goes in if no other access point - if they turn up and he's responsive but immobile then they may wait for backup to minimise damage

And as for the fire brigade - what justifies the (albeit hidden) charge of c.£1k per call out vs a new/repaired door frame/door ? 

Such a call would usually be dealt with by a response team and I'd be surprised if no one was MOE trained on the team. 

Maybe our 'response teams' should meet - depending on time/day in my force this is just as likely to be a PCSO on foot who calls in backup from a neighbourhood team on a bike - MoE without planning/briefing is a big shoulder/size 9 

So life saving equipment not available to the front line? That's utterly disgusting, I bet your Chief Constable sleeps soundly in bed at night ignorant to that. 

diystarter7

Hello OP
I saw similar on our raod a few years ago. Carer came no response, then rang cops.
Cops used a battering ram on a new-ish double-glazed composite door that has high-security locks.
Like some people, the lady had locked the door from the inside at night time.
The frame eventually started to come away from the door. The lady had suffered a stroke.
She lived alone. Lady never came back home as went into care home for a year.
I saw the family when they were selling the house but they never said anything about a like-for-like new door

A chain usually breaks so I was surprised by the damage. However, if that was my dad, I'd be grateful to the cops
for having the guts to kick the door in and ensure dad got the help he needed

Cops have to make a judgment call based on the info proved and their instincts as a matter of life or death
can be a few seconds difference.

Calling out the fire brigade - not only the costs but there could be a serious fire or crash and in my judgment not justified.

If dad is on benefits has no money, seek help from the council, I'm sure cops will direct you if requested, otherwise please just be grateful.

Edit = However, you could ask and not demand but ask, you never know - but at the same time praise the officers - good luck.

lisyloo

Lomast said:

The police would not carry anything to cut chain. If your dad had been unwell would you of preferred they wait however long until the fire brigade got there?

No of course I wouldn’t ! Why a silly thing to ask.
i just Thought they would carry cutters as standard for this sort of thing.