Private Parking charge challenge 11 October 2022 at 8:57PM edited 11 October 2022 at 9:09PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking 71 replies 1.8K views

Coupon-mad

What's the harm? Maybe none, but:

1.  A rogue parking firm could backdate a NTK and tell you it was posted.  Maybe they have already got the DVLA data.  Your heads up gives a PPC the tip off and a way out!

2.  A rogue parking firm could reply and tell you that they will sue you anyway, and you then get so wound up about their 'vaguely plausible rant' and caught up by Xmas/New Year and real life stuff, that you omit to use the POPLA Code and in 2023 DCB Legal will file a claim and you'll have to do a defence and jump through court hoops and deadlines, instead of merely copying a template POPLA Appeal I've already written for you in the 3rd post of the NEWBIES thread.

Are ex-clampers UKPC a rogue PPC?  You decide:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35253759.amp

Sledger

thanks C-M

Will wait for UKPC to sent the POPLA Code due before  28 day from their 26 Nov 22 generic rejection letter 

They generic rejection wanted the driver named within 7 days so unclear on this content "Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. So are they now going to actually study the previous challenge???    At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided. This means their final  rejection decision is already  made?

Will now do my draft for when the POPLA Code comes. Is it a ploy they wait and sent it on day 27 ? Its now day 13 so on what day do I sent UKPC a reminder for the POPLA code and copy POPLA in 
 
Never factored in that they may auto contact DVLA  but then just sit on them.

 just e mailed this though as a backup after reading your BBC UKPC link as this 56 day is my ace

To:[email protected]

Fri 09/12/2022 11:33

Re Name  John Doe
Registered Keeper of  AB12CD 

address ************  ​​

Can you please advise which organisation accessed my Registers keeper data between the period 9 October 2022 to 9 Dec 2022 with the dates they were made and the reason they gave 

 

Thank you and regards 

John Doe

Jenni_D

Of course their final decision is already made ... unless they have a specific reason to allow an appeal (i.e. it's in their benefit for publicity) then ALL appeals are rejected.  

Fruitcake

Sledger said:

 on what day do I sent UKPC a reminder for the POPLA code and copy POPLA in 
 

You do nothing except wait for UKPC to send you a standard rejection letter and PoPLA code.

Umkomaas

Check the current status of your PCN on their website. It may have been cancelled. They rarely notify anyone of a cancellation. 

Sledger

Checked £100 due

Sledger

Still no NTK or POPLA Code 
 
NTK
I have made a SAR to DVLA to determine if UKPC actually obtained my details as evidence to torpedo any Fabricated UKPC claim of the NTK being sent.

POPLA Code
I have read  Parking Cowboys on the issue of this 10 digit code where the last 3 digits is the sequential issue number for that day.   Is this POPLA code under total UKPC control or do they have to notify  POPLA the day its generated so it gets entered onto the POPLA system as a record to eliminate this. "The Parking Prankster has learned that parking operator UKCPS has been handing out fake POPLA codes. This is apparently a cynical move on UKCPS's part - handing out a fake POPLA code will mean it will be rejected by POPLA and may then mean a valid appeal cannot be lodged within the timescale or that the motorist will simply give up."

 I found this post  related to No NTK or POPLA  Code being issued and bailiffs being called  which makes interesting reading and listening on that Parliament link on lengthy PPC response times  but there is no end conclusion  to this case  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5815588/ukpc-no-ntk-or-popla-code-received-now-debt-letter

So if I get no POPLA code within 28 days and do nothing is that another brownie point and wait as suggested by Fruit case. What's the next scenario if no POPLA code ever arrives and what  if anything I need to do.  

My issue here is I spend a lot of time oversees and came back to a pile of letters needing action including PCN where it was too late to pursue.   I now use my daughters address for selective letters for her to open and  have given her address as the Registered keeper in case I get PCN. I can handle Bailiffs but don't want them knocking on my daughters door especially if I am outside UK  


This is just posted here for my ease of future reference in case I need it and  cant find the link again . Cant find any follow up action Taken against UKCPS on this historic scam 
 

POPLA

If you have an invalid POPLA number, contact Richard Reeve, POPLA Tribunal Manager, on 0207 520 7202 and ask him to log the fact that you have attempted to appeal but have not been given a valid POPLA code, and that in any case the POPLA code was generated several days before it was posted. Richard Reeve and his team are well aware of this scam and will know the right procedures to follow.

To be doubly sure, write to POPLA with a copy of your UKCPS rejection letter and get a free proof of postage.

Parking on Private Land Appeals
PO Box 70748
London
EC1P 1SN

British Parking Association Ltd

The BPA Ltd are well aware of this scam but so far have taken no public action. To be fair to motorists they should require UKCPS to contact all motorists who have been given invalid codes and re-issue valid codes, properly dated with 28 days to appeal, and with instructions on how to appeal both online and via the post. Any motorist who has paid should still be given the chance to appeal even though POPLA do not normally allow this.

Email them at [email protected] enclosing a copy of the UKCPS rejection letter. Ask them to explain why UKCPS are issuing invalid POPLA codes. Ask them to explain why UKCPS are also creating POPLA codes several days before they send them out. Ask them to explain why they have not required UKCPS to proactively already contact you, since the BPA are fully aware this is happening.

DVLA

The DVLA are responsible for letting the BPA Ltd police their members. As the BPA Ltd are not currently pulling their weight, you should email [email protected], enclosing a copy of the UKCPS rejection letter. Ask them to investigate why the BPA Ltd have taken no visible action so far to resolve this, and ask that as the BPA Ltd are apparently not regulating the sector correctly whether their ATA status should be investigated.

Umkomaas

Is this POPLA code under total UKPC control or do they have to notify  POPLA the day it's generated so it gets entered onto the POPLA system as a record to eliminate this.

Don't have the definitive answer, but I'd guess there's some link-up. But there's no suspicion of any fakery of POPLA codes.  Not an issue. 

I found this post  related to No NTK or POPLA  Code being issued and bailiffs being called

I read that too. I cannot see any reference to bailiffs being called.

I can handle Bailiffs but don't want them knocking on my daughters door especially if I am outside UK  

Well that's not going to happen. There's no logic to your worry.

Sledger

Ok thanks so will just sit tight on this and wait for UKPC (if and when) to respond with the POPLA Code  then immediately respond with this below  in PDF format to POPLA  with the 4 point unedited C-M  templates  and edit my "undated" note b). If I get the DVLA response and edit it accordingly.  

I note these Templates make no reference  to parking in a disabled Bay so  have also made no reference to that.

Where I am a bit confused in the process of going to the bother of preparing a UKPC  Disabled Case challenge only to get a Dear John not related generic response. I might  just  as well put 2 fingers up and said .FU . If I end up  getting  a POPLA   rejection thats when I feel like drawing a line 

Thank all for your support, hard work and patience and hope it ends after this is sent and can say AMEN and Happy Christmas 

 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name of Registered Keeper ****

Address  *****

POPLA Code: xxxxxxxxx[

VRN: xxxxxxx

.

9 October 2022 -A windscreen sticker was issued by UKPC as "first seen at 16.09" and immediately issued as  "issue time" at 16.09 which raises questions

3 November 2022  -  A Challenge was lodged to UKPC

26 November 2022  A generic Rejection was issued by UKPC giving 7 days to respond and a POPLA code would follow

Notes  

a).  No  NTK was  issued within he prescribed 56 day criteria  and has still not been issued.   

b). Accordingly, a SAR has been sent to DVLA  to avoid doubt requesting which organisation accessed  the Registered Keeper's data between the period 9 October 2022  to 9 Dec 2020 with the dates they were made and the reason they gave. 

 

 I am the keeper of this vehicle and this is my appeal

1) . A compliant Notice to Keeper was never served - no Keeper Liability can apply.

UKPC has not fulfilled the 'second condition' for keeper liability as defined in Schedule 4 and as a result, they have no lawful authority to pursue any parking charge from myself, as a registered keeper appellant. There is no discretion on this matter. If Schedule 4 mandatory documents are not served at all, or in time (or if the document omits any prescribed wording) then keeper liability simply does not apply.

The wording in the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 is as follows:

''Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle:
4(1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. (2) The right under this paragraph applies only if

(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6*, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met;

*Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4:
6(1) 'The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor) - (a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8. This is re-iterated further 'If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper MUST be given in accordance with paragraph 8.'

The NTK must have been delivered to the registered keeper's address within the 'relevant period' which is highlighted as a total of 56 days beginning with the day after that on which any notice to driver was given. As this operator has evidently failed to serve a NTK, not only have they chosen to flout the strict requirements set out in PoFA 2012, but they have consequently failed to meet the second condition for keeper liability. Clearly I cannot be held liable to pay this charge as the mandatory series of parking charge documents were not properly given.

2).Disabled Parking Discrimination

The UKPC windscreen  parking Charge has limited information and states "without clearly displaying a valid disabled person's badge "   UKPC demanding drivers to display a disabled badge when using the disabled parking bays, does not mean they are not disabled; the Equality Act does not require the driver to display any sort of badge or permit. Anyone who fits the lawful definition of disability is entitled to make use of the ‘reasonable adjustments. UKPC are adding arbitrary rules to the lawful right of someone to use a ‘reasonable adjustment’, and this could be considered discrimination and a breach of the Equality Act 2010. 

If your sign states only disabled people with a badge can park in a disabled bay its discrimination against people who have a disability and/or protected characteristics under the EA 2010, but don't have a  badge. Since the landowner employ UKPC then they are jointly in breach of the Act.

3). The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge.

Unedited inserted   " http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287626&postcount=2342

4). No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

Unedited inserted   " http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287628&postcount=2343 

5). The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

Unedited  inserted   "http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287628&postcount=2343

Fruitcake

PoPLA will not consider points about breaching the EA 2010, even though it is the law.

Personally, I would still include it and make it point 1. If it gets to court, then you can show that you reasonably attempted to narrow the issue without the need for a court claim.
It also helps that complaints can be made to the government that PPCs are carrying out disability discrimination and ignoring the law.

Note that many PPCs have form for saying they sent a rejection and PoPLA code to the motorist even though it never arrived. Usually, a complaint is made to the BPA. They investigate. The PPC produces a copy of the rejection letter (but never proof of posting) and then the BPA side with the PPC.

If you haven't received a rejection letter with PoPLA code by the prescribed date, then do complain to the BPA straight away.

If you do get as far as making a PoPLA appeal and your EA breach point is ignored or discounted, you should complain to your MP.