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UKPC no NTK or POPLA code received now Debt letter

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Driver77
Driver77 Posts: 8 Forumite
edited 25 April 2018 at 2:18PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
What's the next step?

Helping a friend with a ticket we followed the newbies guide and after sending the appeal to UKPC on day 26, other than the automated response had no reply by post or email, so presumed the matter was dropped. Until my friend received a debt recovery letter yesterday on day 100.

The UKPC automated reply instructed to phone if no formal letter/e-mail received within 35 days. My friend didn't and many posts on the forum suggest to ignore this first reply. We had entered into a written process and expected a written reply / NTK.

So having appealed, and no reply NTK and/or POPLA code received couldn't take any action. Following forum advice, we wrote to the BPA cc'ing the operator UKPC. The BPA opened an investigation and concluded UKPC had sent a rejection letter with a POPLA code. This was never received, had it been, it would have been day 58, nor does it appear to constitute a NTK. What's your advise? The latest status is in post #8.

Log of correspondence *updated 25/4/18*
Ticket date: 13/12/2017
Issued by: UKPC
Reason: Not parked correctly within markings of lines
Appeal sent on UKPC website 08/01/2018, day 26 (in full below)
Automated reply received from UKPC 08/01/2018 (in full below)
Debt recovery letter received 22/03/2018, day 100
Wrote to the BPA explaining no NTK received 04/04/2018
Second debt letter received 07/04/2018
BPA advised by email they opened an investigation and the operator had 14 days to reply 05/04/2018
Third debt letter received 16/04/2018
No news, so sent an email to BPA requesting an update 23/04/2018
Received BPA email to say they will advise when a conclusion is reached 24/04/2018
Received BPA email to say UKPC had replied by post February 9th to reject the appeal (this was never received), they attached the letter which is copied below. 25/04/2018


Appeal letter sent to UKPC using their webform
Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.ref

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge. 

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and the unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offense, has caused significant distress to me. 

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

name xxx, keeper of vehicle reg, make and model.  


Automated email response from UKPC to online appeal
From: <noreply&#64;ukpcappeals.co.uk>
Date: 8 Jan 2018
Subject: Appeal Confirmation

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email.

UKPC confirm receipt of your on-line appeals form

Your charge will be placed on hold whilst under appeal and we will aim to respond to you by formal letter/e-mail to the address supplied within 35 days, should you not receive a response within this time, please contact our information line on 0333 220 1070.

Please do not respond directly to this email as it is automatically generated and you will not receive a reply.

If you have already been issued with a final letter in response to a previous appeal and you are not providing any further evidence to substantiate your case, then please do not expect a response from us.

Assuring you of our best intentions at all times
«1

Comments

  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    UKPC are fraudsters, read this

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Driver77

    UKPC are a sad company, mainly idiots and known scammers
    and fraudsters

    If you have not been given a POPLA code and debt collectors
    are writing to you, then issue a complaint to the BPA

    You can ignore debt collector rubbish, they are from the
    sewers, just like their masters
  • Driver77
    Driver77 Posts: 8 Forumite
    edited 23 March 2018 at 7:32PM
    Whilst I can write to the BPA, should I also be writing to POPLA, UKPC and Debt collector? Doing this will all count as evidence of concern and taking appropriate and proportionate action, but will it stop the debt letters and ultimate threat of court action?

    What if the UKPC did send the formal letter, with POPLA code but it hasn't been received, but UKPC claim it was sent?

    Presumably there will be record if they actually applied for the POPLA code?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,894 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Whilst I can write to the BPA
    You certainly need to email them like everyone else does. DO NOT say who parked/was driving!

    A BPA complaint will sort it, this is very common; the appellant will then either be given a POPLA code or UKPC will convince the BPA that they 'already issued a letter ages ago...' LOL.

    So get the BPA to investigate, that's why I give their email address in post #5 of the NEWBIES thread, for such complaints.
    should I also be writing to POPLA,
    No, not at all, the appellant can't involve or even complain to POPLA without a code.
    UKPC
    Copy them into the BPA complaint email:

    appealmoreinfo@ukparkingcontrol.com


    and Debt collector?
    No, LOL!! No-one takes them seriously or contacts them! Post #4 of the NEWBIES thread.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Thank you beamer guy and Coupon-mad. I'll write to the BPA and DVLA and post the outcome here.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    You really do not need to treat UKPC with the respect you would for, say, John Lewis, they are not in the same league.

    Just complain as advised and give these former clampers something to think about.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Driver77
    Driver77 Posts: 8 Forumite
    edited 25 April 2018 at 5:04PM
    I have updated the log in the first post of this thread with key dates.

    I'd be grateful for advice on the next steps following the BPA investigation response below;

    The BPA has replied following an investigation with the operator UKPC. UKPC took 20 days to respond, not the 14 days the BPA advised the operator had to reply. The outcome, UKPC claim they sent a rejection to the appeal dated February 9th, this was not received. It's worthy to note February 9th was day 57 since the PCN (on 13/12/17), if it arrived next day that would have been day 58.

    Is it reasonable to only send one rejection letter with POPLA code, and does this qualify as a NTK?

    The rejection letter forwarded by the BPA is copied below. If my friend had received the alleged letter on or after Feb 9th, already prepared with advice from this forum a POPLA appeal would have followed, adding the fact the letter was dated, after day 56 and that it doesn't qualify as a NTK.

    Am I correct that a NTK to comply with POFA should include the date of the parking offence, and advise the keeper the option to identify the driver? Or is this mitigated because they are replying to the online appeal submitted by the keeper?

    This is not a circular
    Date : 09 February 2018
    Reference No : xxxxx
    Registration Number : xxxxx
    POPLA Reference No : xxxxx
    
    Dear xxx,
    
    Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
    We have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that
    this parking charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at xxx advising drivers 
    that vehicles must be parked only within designated marked bays.
    
    Our appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:
    
    1) Pay the parking charge detailed above at the reduced rate of £60 to UK Parking Control Ltd.
    PLEASE REFER OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
    
    2) Make an appeal to the independent adjudicator POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) 
    using the verification code provided above. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you 
    will lose the right to pay the discounted rate of £60, and should POPLA reject your appeal you 
    will be required to pay the full amount of £100. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be 
    unable to appeal with POPLA. Appeals to POPLA must be made within twenty-eight days from 
    the date of this letter. To appeal with POPLA, please visit [website link removed as forum does 
    not allow]. If you are unable to access the internet, you may appeal by post !!!8211; this must be done 
    using a POPLA postal form which may be obtained by contacting POPLA by phone (0330 159 
    6126) or post (PO Box 1270, Warrington, WA4 9RL).
    
    By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services [website link removed as 
    forum does not allow] provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent 
    to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute 
    resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as 
    explained above.
    
    3) If you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after thirty-five days 
    from the date of this letter to £100 and the matter will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at 
    which point you will be liable to pay an additional charge of £60, in accordance with the terms 
    and conditions of parking, and further charges will be claimed if court action is taken against you. 
    Any unpaid court judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.
    
    PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT 
    WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGES. PLEASE SEE: [website link removed as forum does 
    not allow] FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.
    
    Yours faithfully,
    
    Appeals Department
    UK Parking Control Limited
    
    © UK Parking Control Ltd. PO BOX 1087, Uxbridge,
    
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    A rejection of an appeal is not a Notice to Keeper, of course it isnt.
  • Driver77
    Driver77 Posts: 8 Forumite
    Thanks nosferatu1001. What's the next step, a reply to the BPA, citing even if the letter had been received, it does not comply with POFA 2012 as a NTK?

    Are the BPA likely to review with the operator, or negotiate a POPLA appeal extension?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 25 April 2018 at 4:54PM
    The rejection letter provided by the BPA is copied below

    The letter in post #8 is not from the BPA.
    It is just a standard UKPC appeal rejection letter.
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