Private Parking charge challenge

Sledger

I have read the MSE Private parking need-to-knows and tactics for challenging fines but am still unclear of the scenario in 1and 3) below  

1. The militant approach and 2.The no-nonsense approach – tell 'em you won't pay.

1). If the private ticket was placed on the windscreen and the driver failed to tell the registered keeper where the registered keeper gets notified by the Parking company in 28 days' time where now the memory is put to the test as to who was driving at the time.  The keeper had a reunion of visiting friends where several had access to the car during their stay so how to notify which one of his so-called friends failed to notify the keeper. 

2). Now assuming the Parking Company have fully complied with all procedural steps and under the Protection of Freedoms Act in October 2012 the parking company can invite the registered keeper to name the driver. If the registered keeper refuses to name, the driver then the parking company may pursue them to whatever charge they were lawfully entitled to from the driver. If the registered keeper names the driver, they may only pursue them. so how best to proceed to overcome this from MSE Fight unfair parking tickets?  Don't assume the driver's liable for the ticket It might be the driver wot dunnit – but that doesn't mean it's the driver who'll have to pay. Parking operators in England and Wales are allowed to hold the vehicle's owner liable for unpaid charges if they don't know who the driver was and the owner refuses, or is unable, to name the driver.

3). Got this from another website which ads to confusion "ONLY THE DRIVER AND THE OWNER OF THE LAND ARE A PARTY TO THE CONTRACT UNLESS THE PARKING COMPANY ACTS AS THEIR AGENT.  Therefore should you receive an INVOICE from a PPC as the keeper of a vehicle and you do not know who was driving, I suggest you tell them this and tell them not to contact you again. You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide any information to the PPC. Refuse to do so.

What are the keepers Options 
a). Write to them advising the circumstances as in 1). and request supportive documents CCTV etc to determine who was driving.  If they cannot provide it  get clarification as to why the Keeper is  forced to pay as there was no contract between the Keeper and the Parking company, no contract was broken so on what basis are they lawfully intitled to pursue the keeper? as 3) above

b). Get one of his friends willing to state they were the driver who is working in Saudi Arabia where all mail is only via PO Box. My Friend responds and admits to parking on the site but can't recall how and where he was parked as it was empty on a Sunday after 4pm when all type shops were closed and recalls something on the windscreen he thought was advertising and trashed it and adds please don't contact me again.as I will just ignore it. 

c). Any suggestions welcomed
  

KeithP

Do you have a parking issue you would like help with?

Coupon-mad

I have read the MSE Private parking need-to-knows and tactics for challenging fines.

That's a shame because that's not what to read here.  Whilst it has been improved, it is out of date and continues to include plainly wrong advice, as discussed here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback/p1

I think the MSE Guide still has an optional paragraph somewhere, unfortunately, for appellants to try to argue that the parking charge as 'not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'. That idea went out of the window in 2015 with ParkingEye v Beavis.  

Last time I read it - fairly recently - the MSE article also still (astonishingly) told people to respond to pieces of paper placed on their windscreen by non-AOS member parking firms...these are companies who can't get DVLA data and can never contact you at all...!

Giving your data like that is akin to responding to a 'Hello Mum/Dad, I smashed my phone' scam text with all your data and adding them on whatsapp even though you know it's a scam text.

Having said that, this website sounds even worse:

"Got this from another website which ads to confusion "ONLY THE DRIVER AND THE OWNER OF THE LAND ARE A PARTY TO THE CONTRACT UNLESS THE PARKING COMPANY ACTS AS THEIR AGENT.  Therefore should you receive an INVOICE from a PPC as the keeper of a vehicle and you do not know who was driving, I suggest you tell them this and tell them not to contact you again. You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide any information to the PPC. Refuse to do so."

Is that rubbish from some FMOTL website?  Stop reading it.

Please read the NEWBIES thread (see my signature below, for how to hop straight there) and let us know after reading the first post of it, if you still have a question, and which PPC is involved.

Sledger

KeithP said:

Do you have a parking issue you would like help with?

yes as am not that computer literate and going a bit dizzy and losing track reading the many link articles then trying to find it again back paging. It's like snakes and ladders thinking you have a valid plea only to find its wasting time as advised by Coupon Mad (CM) that the MSE info is out of date. 

At this stage I just need to know if that discounted £60 carrot is available to the registered keeper after 28 days if the driver does not respond allowing more time to navigate this site and if its then worth a). lodging a challenge or b).  just getting the driver to pay the £60 before the 14-day deadline. 

Thank you CM for your input and finally figured out getting to Newbies thread  No 5 down "(Most recent by Coupon-madon 16 November 2020 at 3:37PM )"   which I need to digest    It was UKPC where I read some post here had some bad reviews  

Sledger

 Edited Draft but is it the latest as it was posted  2020 

TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING:

The PC was issued for parking in a Disabled Bay in an empty car park outside of shopping hours. so have added that section in Bold .  No blue badge holder  but impaired.

 The items struck out in italics may not be applicable so shall they stay or be deleted ?  

Re PARKING CHARGE PCN number:******

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the Registered Keeper? keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your Parking Charge PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it. NOT APPLICABLE ?

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. NOT APPLICABLE ?

The UKPC parking Charge and subsequent visit as attached states only disabled people with a blue badge can park in a disabled bay.  UKPC demanding drivers to display a blue badge when using the disabled parking bays, does not mean they are not disabled; the Equality Act does not require the driver to display any sort of badge or permit. Anyone who fits the lawful definition of disability is entitled to make use of the ‘reasonable adjustments. UKPC are adding arbitrary rules to the lawful right of someone to use a ‘reasonable adjustment’, and this could be considered discrimination and a breach of the Equality Act 2010. UKCPS and the Landover could therefore jointly be in breach of the Act and potentially liable to finding themselves in court.


THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE, OR IN THE RELEVANT BOX ON THEIR APPEALS PAGE.

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

DON'T POST IT BY ROYAL MAIL UNLESS YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION ON THE PCN.

CERTAINLY NOT BY RECORDED DELIVERY - FORGET THAT! - ALWAYS USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE - OR EMAIL IF OFFERED AS AN OPTION ON THE NOTICE - BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP PROOF/ A SCREENSHOT. NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER APPEAL OPTION BUT POSTAL...BUT OF COURSE YOU PUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS!

You can (carefully!) add a little to the template above, 'in order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of...':

- the driver's receipts/bank transactions (or Hospital Appointment/Hotel booking, etc.) that day as 'they' were a genuine customer/patient, etc.

- If an occupant of the car is disabled or elderly/infirm, then the keeper can add that, without implying who was driving.

- A copy of the Blue Badge is a good idea to upload/attach but without saying who parked.

Sledger

Is the attached only signage considered adequate as the Contract T&C between driver entered into are what?

Umkomaas

Forbidding sign. 

Read and understand the components of a contract ....

Offer, acceptance, consideration and intent to create legal relations.

Coupon-mad

Was the driver or passenger disabled?

What happened when you tried Plan A first?

Remove this because it adds nothing and the PPC isn't UKCPS:

"UKCPS and the Landover could therefore jointly be in breach of the Act and potentially liable to finding themselves in court."

Sledger

What happened when you tried Plan A first?

Thanks C-M  and are you referring to your Plan A in Newbies. The retailer was of no help as was a Tesco manager escalated to the Tesco CEO e mail reply when I forgot like many other to validate my parking before leaving.  

To date nothing has been done/sent  and still toying with Appealing as the keeper before the 14-day deadline as per "RAC advise to retain the right to pay at the 40% discount rate even if the operator rules are still in contravention." This however goes against the newbies plan B appeal online or by email at day 25 or 26 after a windscreen PCN but as the KEEPER, not driver, using the ''one size fits all'' blue appeal template below.

 Accordingly, can you please clarify why not wait for them to contact the keeper after 28 days instead.  Moreover, if they contact the keeper after 28 days as no response from driver does that 40% offer start all over again as if it were the first notification as am a bit confused. If the discount after 28 Days is still on offer why not wait for them to contact me?

The RAC also states "Do not park in disabled bays unless you have a blue badge. which sort of defeats that discrimination argument but will leave it in if I appeal.

Feeling like just paying as the easy way out rather than the time gamble option but that defeats the chance of winning which you can't put a price on

Coupon-mad

The retailer was of no help as was a Tesco manager escalated to the Tesco CEO e mail reply when I forgot like many other to validate my parking before leaving.  

I thought the PCN was for parking in a disabled bay?

Sledger

Sorry for the Confusion C-M its for  a disabled bay outside B&Q who were of no help saying its a multi use carpark outside of their control. The Tesco one was a comparison for a  different PCN  where Tesco  were the sole outlet and the CEO office  were of no help.

 Can you please advise pro and cons between the RAC 14 day appeal. your day 25/26  or just wait for them to contact the keeper thanks