Refusing a smart meter installation

wild666

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Mum has now moved to a bungalow and the smart meter is not linked to the supplier because Mum changed supplier away from the default and that, apparently, requires a new smart meter for the new supplier.  Again, it means meter readings need to be taken and sent in.

That shouldn't be the case. Smart meters communicate with the DCC, and the DCC's data is accessible to whichever supplier you use.

An exception would be if she has one of the early first-generation meters that connected directly to the supplier and can't be redirected to speak to the DCC.

I can't see the point of changing our meter to smart meter if it needs swapping every time there is a change of supplier.

As above, this shouldn't be the case.

I have a first gen smart meter and I was going to sign up and pay £50 for the Ivie meter but put it off for a while, the first check said it was compatible but then I put my details in the other day and it said it wasn't compatible. I had to use the MPAN as the IHD serial number I didn't have because I threw the IHD out in Jan 2016 because it was water damaged in the 2015 flooding.

CKhalvashi

k_man said:

CKhalvashi said:

Glum said:

QrizB said:

Ofgem's site (at your link) is unfortunately worded:

The "must install" in the first sentence overrides the customer choice mentioned further down in the box.

The latest Ofgem communication on the smart meter rollout seems to be this open letter:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/smart-meter-rollout-energy-suppliers-rollout-delivery-open-letter-march-2022

Thanks. I spotted that too. It should probably say:
In all other cases you can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted.

I see from the open letter that 'abort rates' for the larger suppliers are 23%. I wonder how many of these are due to bad communication with the customer i.e. the fitter turns up and the customer just says, "What? Not today thank you!". From the general tone of the Ofgem letter relating to quotas, this may explain why I am being told I'm having one without being asked.

In fairness though, if you turn up to most peoples homes on a weekday you're going to have issues getting in, at least with us and our neighbours. We're either doing something or sleeping (depending on work schedules) at these times.

I've said to the company that wants to install for us that I'd take no issue with them installing it, just we can't guarantee to be in on the timescales they're looking at (I refuse to be unable to schedule meetings due to power going out for a while just to sit in all day for someone to not arrive as timed slots aren't on offer), they're insisting, despite both meters being outside, that someone is home for the install. They won't even give an hour's notice to be home so it's not as if I can reschedule 1/2 calls on the day, come home and then go back to the office.

Access to the home is required for safety reasons, to check gas appliances are working and clear air from the gas pipes.

Thanks for the info, I didn't realise that!

They're going to have to wait for a suitable appointment to come on a rest day in this case.

Spoonie_Turtle

Don't know if I should start a separate thread it if it's okay to ask here, but: genuine question, apart from not communicating (which is kind of the whole point of smart meters, but okay) what potential is there for electricity smart meters to go wrong? 

I know some gas meters register 0 as the hexadecimal and record that as the usage, and there's been blips of communication when firmware is rolled out, but have there been problems with electricity meters not displaying anything at all, or recording wrongly, or anything else?

I'm seriously starting to consider whether we should go for one BUT my parents would need to be on board, so I need to be able to give them all of the information (including even the really rare potential problems, obviously informing them that they are extremely rare) for them to feel fully informed and confident that nothing unforeseen might happen.  We've had metering problems in the past and it caused them so much stress that they are extremely reluctant to fix something that ain't broke, as the saying goes.  [And our very simple, displays-the-reading-and-that's-it single rate meter most certainly ain't broke.  It's not even 5 years old!]

Chrysalis

Smart meter is actually saving me money primarily for two reasons.

I get discounts now hen wholesale costs go down on my smart meter tariffs.

My old meter was faulty and giving elevated readings.

Cottage_Economy

@QrizB we’re with ecotricity and only get one tariff, so no lower night rate. I’m not sure whether Ecotricity will do a smart tariff - they are introducing one for solar customers who don’t get FIT payments but not sure about a special rate for smart meter customers. 

I didn’t know about getting paid for what I export rather than just an estimate, so thanks for that. That would probably be the biggest pull for doing it.

@[Deleted User] we’re on single phase electric. 

The info would probably be ok every 30 minutes, although I’d prefer 15. I notice that your baseline is zero - does it not log usage from appliances that are permanently on, such as fridges? I was expecting to see a permanent low baseline value and then peaks corresponding to use of kettle, microwave, washing machine, etc.

MWT

Cottage_Economy said:

I notice that your baseline is zero - does it not log usage from appliances that are permanently on, such as fridges? I was expecting to see a permanent low baseline value and then peaks corresponding to use of kettle, microwave, washing machine, etc.

The smart meter is logging your imports from the grid, and separately your exports to the grid.

So if your solar generation is covering your current usage, it will show zero imports...

[Deleted User]

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Don't know if I should start a separate thread it if it's okay to ask here, but: genuine question, apart from not communicating (which is kind of the whole point of smart meters, but okay) what potential is there for electricity smart meters to go wrong? 

I know some gas meters register 0 as the hexadecimal and record that as the usage, and there's been blips of communication when firmware is rolled out, but have there been problems with electricity meters not displaying anything at all, or recording wrongly, or anything else?

I'm seriously starting to consider whether we should go for one BUT my parents would need to be on board, so I need to be able to give them all of the information (including even the really rare potential problems, obviously informing them that they are extremely rare) for them to feel fully informed and confident that nothing unforeseen might happen.  We've had metering problems in the past and it caused them so much stress that they are extremely reluctant to fix something that ain't broke, as the saying goes.  [And our very simple, displays-the-reading-and-that's-it single rate meter most certainly ain't broke.  It's not even 5 years old!]

All meters have the potential to fail. This is why there is an independent testing service. There are now millions of smart meters in homes across the Country that are being used to produce monthly statements. 

Reading of problems on this forum can add un-necessary concern. The hexadecimal issue that you mention is irrelevant as it does not impact gas billing which is based solely on index readings. When a smart meter is asked for data by the supplier it returns up to 4 index readings and XML files containing 30 minute usage data. The hexadecimal error shows up in the XML file.

At the moment, Octopus is the only supplier that uses XML data for electricity billing for its time-of-use tariffs. Missing data can cause an automatic billing issue; that said, my time-of-use billing for import has been fine now for over 9 months.

Time-of-use tariffs will become the norm in the next year or so. Renewable energy is anything but constant and the Grid has to match supply with demand via variable pricing. This can only be achieved with a smart meter. Those who do not embrace the technology will pay a lot more for their energy.

My smart meters have been installed now for over 31/2 years.

EssexHebridean

wild666 said:

Ultrasonic said:

wild666 said:

[Deleted User] said:

We are all paying for the rollout of smart meters as part of our daily standing charge. If your supplier has deemed your existing meter to be end-of-life then they now have the right to fit a smart meter without your permission. They can also apply to a Court for a Warrant of Entry.

Reading forums such as MSE is not a good indicator of the state of smart metering. Smart meters will form a vital part of what will be a smart grid. Increasingly, we will see the introduction of time-of-use tariffs which will require a smart meter. Those that hold out will pay more for the flexibility of using energy whenever they want.

As I've said a few times a friend has had the texts, emails and letters telling him he is to have a smart meter installed on a date and he just cancels them saying his electric and gas usage hasn't increased or decreased over the 40 years he's being in his flat. They have used the end of life excuse a few times saying the meter could be giving inaccurate readings and he tells them to prove it at their expense and they drop the installation of the smart meters. 
IMHO, end of life means nothing if the meter is still giving accurate readings there are still meters reading in ft3 so should they have exchanged those meters to ones reading in M3? These meters are even older than the M3 meters and many, if not all, are still giving fairly accurate readings today.

I'd imagine that at some point there would be a safety-related end-of-life, particularly where gas meters are concerned.

Also, if electricity usage hasn't changed in 40 years that would strongly suggest a fault to me!

He is very frugal with both his electric and gas usage and the kWh usage has changed very little in the 40 years. He's out most of the day and part of the evening so his usage is only his fridge and freezer, and a bit of cooking in his air fryer and combi microwave. He doesn't have the internet only is phone has internet access and his 2Gb monthly allowance is more than enough for his needs. He moans if his electric usage goes over 2.2 kWh per day. He doesn't have a dryer only a washing machine and dries clothing and bedding outdoors. His appliances are the latest A+++ rated when he bought them he doesn't go for cheap options. 

So he's gone from using all incandescent bulbs presumably now to replacing with LEDs when they need changing, he has appliances that will be using a fraction of what their predecessors used even 20 years ago never mind 40 due to the advances in technology, and assuming he was cooking using a standard electric cooker previously, he's now using cooking methods that will be saving both time and energy, and yet his use hasn't changed in all that time? Sorry - to me there is definitely something not adding up there! 

TheBanker

I was originally put off having smart meters because you only ever hear bad things about them. But having had them fitted last Summer, I wish I'd done it sooner.

I could have worked out which appliances were using the most energy (and in some cases it's obvious), but I find it handy to have the smart meter. Now if I want a bath, or want to put the heating on for an hour, I know roughly how much it will cost me. I have been able to work out the most efficient way of using my washing machine and dishwasher, and I know the consequences of using my tumble dryer. Like I say I could have done all of this manually but the smart meter makes it easier. Plus I don't have to remember to send in meter readings, so my bills (and therefore direct debit) are more accurate.

I don't know why they get so much bad press.

Alnat1

TheBanker said:

I don't know why they get so much bad press.

Simply because the 1% of people who have problems with them complain loudly in public and online. The 99% who don't have problems have nothing to say, so all others hear/see is negative.

Personally, I think my smart meters are great and save me lots of money.