Refusing a smart meter installation

brewerdave

dunstonh said:

pineapple said:

They can't fit smart meters everywhere even if the customer wants them. Next door got harangued and thought it was obligatory so she had them round and guess what - she can't have one due to the poor mobile phone signal. Which also applies to me.

SMETS1 used mobile networks.  We couldn't have a SMETS1 meter due to no signal.  They installed a new conventional meter instead (old one was faulty - ironically, so is the replacement but it's in my favour).    SMETS2 don't use mobile signals.  99.25% of households work with a SMETS2 meter.

Not true !!!   Still dependent on the mobile network in the South.

Cottage_Economy

I’ve been debating whether to have a smart meter but held out so far because I’m not sure if my set up will work well. 

I’m in a rural smallholding in south lincolnshire ( classed as midlands), with solar panels fitted on a outbuilding. Mobile signal isn’t great and frequently drops out. Power cuts every week, sometimes just blips for a minute or so, sometimes hours. The electric meter and solar inverter are next to each other 30 feet away from the main house in a barn. Given up trying to monitor the inverter as the signal won’t get through the walls of the barn and the house so it can be picked up. I monitor everything manually by walking across to the barns, which I do most days on the way to the paddock. 

I’m not convinced it will have good performance. Any thoughts?

QrizB

Cottage_Economy said:

I’m not convinced it will have good performance. Any thoughts?

I'd give it a go.

Even an intermittent conenction from the hub to the WAN will be sufficient for smart metering to work, and if you can't even get that you'll still have a meter that you can read yourself just as you do your current one.

Cottage_Economy

QrizB said:

Cottage_Economy said:

I’m not convinced it will have good performance. Any thoughts?

I'd give it a go.

Even an intermittent conenction from the hub to the WAN will be sufficient for smart metering to work, and if you can't even get that you'll still have a meter that you can read yourself just as you do your current one.

What’s the benefit to me by having one? I’ve been told that being able to see my consumption will help me manage it but if the smart meter can’t communicate with any device inside my home, just like the inverter, due to poor signal and solid walls I won’t be able to see anything anyway. 

I mean presumably you have a little monitor inside the house that shows data, and that to me is the biggest selling point. But I’m not getting any data unless I walk across and check myself. 

k_man

CKhalvashi said:

Glum said:

QrizB said:

Ofgem's site (at your link) is unfortunately worded:

The "must install" in the first sentence overrides the customer choice mentioned further down in the box.

The latest Ofgem communication on the smart meter rollout seems to be this open letter:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/smart-meter-rollout-energy-suppliers-rollout-delivery-open-letter-march-2022

Thanks. I spotted that too. It should probably say:
In all other cases you can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted.

I see from the open letter that 'abort rates' for the larger suppliers are 23%. I wonder how many of these are due to bad communication with the customer i.e. the fitter turns up and the customer just says, "What? Not today thank you!". From the general tone of the Ofgem letter relating to quotas, this may explain why I am being told I'm having one without being asked.

In fairness though, if you turn up to most peoples homes on a weekday you're going to have issues getting in, at least with us and our neighbours. We're either doing something or sleeping (depending on work schedules) at these times.

I've said to the company that wants to install for us that I'd take no issue with them installing it, just we can't guarantee to be in on the timescales they're looking at (I refuse to be unable to schedule meetings due to power going out for a while just to sit in all day for someone to not arrive as timed slots aren't on offer), they're insisting, despite both meters being outside, that someone is home for the install. They won't even give an hour's notice to be home so it's not as if I can reschedule 1/2 calls on the day, come home and then go back to the office.

Access to the home is required for safety reasons, to check gas appliances are working and clear air from the gas pipes.

[Deleted User]

You mean data like this:





You can access this data on a PC; Pad or Phone. The installer shouldn’t fit a smart meter unless a connection can be established with the smart meter Network. 

Cottage_Economy

[Deleted User] said:

You mean data like this:





You can access this data on a PC; Pad or Phone. The installer shouldn’t fit a smart meter unless a connection can be established with the smart meter Network. 

Does the website give you more granular data or just this daily overview? Do you have a device in the house that can show you more detailed info as it’s happening?

My concern is that the smart meter will not be able to communicate with the mobile network properly because it’s inside a barn. 

QrizB

Cottage_Economy said:

QrizB said:

Cottage_Economy said:

I’m not convinced it will have good performance. Any thoughts?

I'd give it a go.

Even an intermittent conenction from the hub to the WAN will be sufficient for smart metering to work, and if you can't even get that you'll still have a meter that you can read yourself just as you do your current one.

What’s the benefit to me by having one? I’ve been told that being able to see my consumption will help me manage it but if the smart meter can’t communicate with any device inside my home, just like the inverter, due to poor signal and solid walls I won’t be able to see anything anyway. 

I mean presumably you have a little monitor inside the house that shows data, and that to me is the biggest selling point. But I’m not getting any data unless I walk across and check myself. 

The monitor that comes with the meter is unlikely to work for you; it probably wouldn't work even if your barn and house were both built of paper and sticks, just due to the distance involved. Zigbee (the protocol used by HAN, which connects the IHD) is a short-range system and, while it might claim a range of 100+ metres, most people with smart meters will agree that even 10 metres is pushing it.

So you're not likely to see real-time consumption data unless you want to sit in your barn.

You will get access to more detailed after-the-event reporting, the sort of half-hourly consumption data that you'll have seen posted now and then in threads here. You might get this from your energy supplier, or you can obtain it via www.n3rgy.com/ or one of a number of smartphone apps (I use Hildebrand's Bright app, but others are available).

And you'll find a wider range of electricity tariffs on offer. Smart meters can be switched remotely between standard-rate and E7 (E7 might suit you during the summer months, when you're getting most of your daytime electricity from solar) plus there are smart-meter-only tariffs from some suppliers that can work out beneficial.

Plus a smart meter will add an export register, so you can get paid for your actual solar export rather than the deemed value that's normally used for FIT-eligible systems. This might earn more (or might not, but without an export meter you don't know).

[Deleted User]

How granular do you want? This is the data for yesterday in 30 minute usage segments. I have solar PV and a battery. The small usage amounts are a consequence of the time that the system takes to react to changing solar supply and new loads. The App that shows this data gets it directly from the DCC network by ‘pulling’ data from my smart meter. If you are on a small holding, do you have a single or 3 phase electricity supply?

wild666

Ultrasonic said:

wild666 said:

[Deleted User] said:

We are all paying for the rollout of smart meters as part of our daily standing charge. If your supplier has deemed your existing meter to be end-of-life then they now have the right to fit a smart meter without your permission. They can also apply to a Court for a Warrant of Entry.

Reading forums such as MSE is not a good indicator of the state of smart metering. Smart meters will form a vital part of what will be a smart grid. Increasingly, we will see the introduction of time-of-use tariffs which will require a smart meter. Those that hold out will pay more for the flexibility of using energy whenever they want.

As I've said a few times a friend has had the texts, emails and letters telling him he is to have a smart meter installed on a date and he just cancels them saying his electric and gas usage hasn't increased or decreased over the 40 years he's being in his flat. They have used the end of life excuse a few times saying the meter could be giving inaccurate readings and he tells them to prove it at their expense and they drop the installation of the smart meters. 
IMHO, end of life means nothing if the meter is still giving accurate readings there are still meters reading in ft3 so should they have exchanged those meters to ones reading in M3? These meters are even older than the M3 meters and many, if not all, are still giving fairly accurate readings today.

I'd imagine that at some point there would be a safety-related end-of-life, particularly where gas meters are concerned.

Also, if electricity usage hasn't changed in 40 years that would strongly suggest a fault to me!

He is very frugal with both his electric and gas usage and the kWh usage has changed very little in the 40 years. He's out most of the day and part of the evening so his usage is only his fridge and freezer, and a bit of cooking in his air fryer and combi microwave. He doesn't have the internet only is phone has internet access and his 2Gb monthly allowance is more than enough for his needs. He moans if his electric usage goes over 2.2 kWh per day. He doesn't have a dryer only a washing machine and dries clothing and bedding outdoors. His appliances are the latest A+++ rated when he bought them he doesn't go for cheap options.