Refusing a smart meter installation

Cottage_Economy

MWT said:

Cottage_Economy said:

I notice that your baseline is zero - does it not log usage from appliances that are permanently on, such as fridges? I was expecting to see a permanent low baseline value and then peaks corresponding to use of kettle, microwave, washing machine, etc.

The smart meter is logging your imports from the grid, and separately your exports to the grid.

So if your solar generation is covering your current usage, it will show zero imports...

So I should see base usage at night when the panels are not generating?

[Deleted User]

Cottage_Economy said:

MWT said:

Cottage_Economy said:

I notice that your baseline is zero - does it not log usage from appliances that are permanently on, such as fridges? I was expecting to see a permanent low baseline value and then peaks corresponding to use of kettle, microwave, washing machine, etc.

The smart meter is logging your imports from the grid, and separately your exports to the grid.

So if your solar generation is covering your current usage, it will show zero imports...

So I should see base usage at night when the panels are not generating?

Correct. Your baseload doesn't care where the energy is coming from. If your baseload is 200W and your panels are outputting >200W, then any Grid usage graph will baseline at zero (provided you have nothing else turned on). If your electricity demand is, say, 1.8kW and your panels are producing 500W, then your Grid use will be 1.3kW.

Chrysalis

[Deleted User] said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Don't know if I should start a separate thread it if it's okay to ask here, but: genuine question, apart from not communicating (which is kind of the whole point of smart meters, but okay) what potential is there for electricity smart meters to go wrong? 

I know some gas meters register 0 as the hexadecimal and record that as the usage, and there's been blips of communication when firmware is rolled out, but have there been problems with electricity meters not displaying anything at all, or recording wrongly, or anything else?

I'm seriously starting to consider whether we should go for one BUT my parents would need to be on board, so I need to be able to give them all of the information (including even the really rare potential problems, obviously informing them that they are extremely rare) for them to feel fully informed and confident that nothing unforeseen might happen.  We've had metering problems in the past and it caused them so much stress that they are extremely reluctant to fix something that ain't broke, as the saying goes.  [And our very simple, displays-the-reading-and-that's-it single rate meter most certainly ain't broke.  It's not even 5 years old!]

All meters have the potential to fail. This is why there is an independent testing service. There are now millions of smart meters in homes across the Country that are being used to produce monthly statements. 

Reading of problems on this forum can add un-necessary concern. The hexadecimal issue that you mention is irrelevant as it does not impact gas billing which is based solely on index readings. When a smart meter is asked for data by the supplier it returns up to 4 index readings and XML files containing 30 minute usage data. The hexadecimal error shows up in the XML file.

At the moment, Octopus is the only supplier that uses XML data for electricity billing for its time-of-use tariffs. Missing data can cause an automatic billing issue; that said, my time-of-use billing for import has been fine now for over 9 months.

Time-of-use tariffs will become the norm in the next year or so. Renewable energy is anything but constant and the Grid has to match supply with demand via variable pricing. This can only be achieved with a smart meter. Those who do not embrace the technology will pay a lot more for their energy.

My smart meters have been installed now for over 31/2 years.

Hope you right on TOU as I agree it should be the way forward, and your post deserved so many more likes.

PennyForThem_2

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

All meters have the potential to fail. This is why there is an independent testing service. There are now millions of smart meters in homes across the Country that are being used to produce monthly statements. 

Well I have Smart Meter v2  installed June 2019 and had to move from Co-op energy to Octopus Oct 2019.  They were fine up to the move and now nearly 3 years later there is still a problem with reading remotely.  Octopus have acknowledged a problem.

I will be really really annoyed if I cannot take advantage of optimal rates because of this.  So I think Dolor said previously way back that SMET2 should be fine - not from my experienience.

[Deleted User]

PennyForThem_2 said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

All meters have the potential to fail. This is why there is an independent testing service. There are now millions of smart meters in homes across the Country that are being used to produce monthly statements. 

Well I have Smart Meter v2  installed June 2019 and had to move from Co-op energy to Octopus Oct 2019.  They were fine up to the move and now nearly 3 years later there is still a problem with reading remotely.  Octopus have acknowledged a problem.

I will be really really annoyed if I cannot take advantage of optimal rates because of this.  So I think Dolor said previously way back that SMET2 should be fine - not from my experienience.

I am guessing that you have a SMETS1 meter. Check to see if it has been adopted by the DCC:

https://smartmetercheck.citizensadvice.org.uk/

FWiW, Octopus has a very good smart meter team.

QrizB

Cottage_Economy said:

@QrizB we’re with ecotricity and only get one tariff, so no lower night rate. I’m not sure whether Ecotricity will do a smart tariff - they are introducing one for solar customers who don’t get FIT payments but not sure about a special rate for smart meter customers.

I'm 95% sure that Ecotricity will offfer Economy 7. Their deep-green rival Green Energy UK definitely offer E7, plus they have (or had, I don't know if they are offering it now) a 4-rate tariff called Tide.

Once you get a smart meter you can see how much electricity you use at what time of day and work out whether E7 or other TPOU tariffs will be cheaper.

I didn’t know about getting paid for what I export rather than just an estimate, so thanks for that. That would probably be the biggest pull for doing it.

Bigger arrays are likely to see more benefit, but until you have the data you won't know.

Sirius_Minor

Smart Meters like all new technology had teething problems, which made many wary.
They are improving which is good.
However, there will always be 2 issues that will be there for some considerable time.
Data usage
Company policies

Case in point.
Thames Water sent an inflated bill to a 98 year old woman & had increased her D/D from £33 to £215 per month.
There was a leak on the property which Thames Water were aware of yet...
Her son, an accountant with PoA stopped the D/D.

"The supplier highlighted that smart meters only charge for water used, which should lead to lower bills. Meters could also indicate a leak at a property, as there "would be a continuous flow even at times where we wouldn't expect to see any water being used", they added."

Didn't work in this case & the fact that they were informed of the leak 6 months previously...
Some would call it inefficiency, I call it lack of professionalism.
At 13:14 last Friday, received a very loud knocking on my door.
A gas engineer. Apparently, the electrician checking on the lighting etc smelt gas so reported it.
It was the new boiler which had been fitted on 29/7/22.
Unlike the case above, this could have turned fatal.

Apodemus

TheBanker said:

I don't know why they get so much bad press.

Two reasons.

Firstly the conspiracy theorists who believe that smart meters are  part of a plan to control us.

Secondly, all the people who confuse the IHD with the smart meter and assume that when the IHD stops working, the Smart Meter itself has packed up.  I know several people who complain loudly about smart meters and in all these cases it was only the IHD that was not working.

[Deleted User]

Data protection and security is at the heart of the smart meter design. The only agencies that can ‘pull’ index data from a smart meter are the designated supplier, and a Registered DCC Other User but only WITH the consumer’s express permission.

DNOs are also Registered DCC Other Users with limited powers to ‘pull’ data. This is limited to such mundane things as Grid voltage. Some DNOs are trialling ways of using real-time voltage data to manage transformers at an area level to maintain voltage and frequency within statutory limits. FWiW, my Grid Voltage increases by 5 volts each time the sun shines due to local solar farms.

The network operator, the DCC, does not get to see individual consumer data. Other suppliers have a similar ban which is managed with bespoke security certificates.

PennyForThem_2

Dolor said:

PennyForThem_2 said:

Chrysalis said:

Dolor said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

All meters have the potential to fail. This is why there is an independent testing service. There are now millions of smart meters in homes across the Country that are being used to produce monthly statements. 

Well I have Smart Meter v2  installed June 2019 and had to move from Co-op energy to Octopus Oct 2019.  They were fine up to the move and now nearly 3 years later there is still a problem with reading remotely.  Octopus have acknowledged a problem.

I will be really really annoyed if I cannot take advantage of optimal rates because of this.  So I think Dolor said previously way back that SMET2 should be fine - not from my experienience.

I am guessing that you have a SMETS1 meter. Check to see if it has been adopted by the DCC:

https://smartmetercheck.citizensadvice.org.uk/

FWiW, Octopus has a very good smart meter team.

No, it is SMETS 2.  It is read intermittantly by Octopus - so for last 3 months I have had SMETS data bills.  Since Oct 1st the SMETS 2 meters have not been read except for 1 or 2 days.  The electricity one seems to have downloaded data on 9th Oct, the gas on 2nd Oct.

I live in Cardiff so not out in rural area.

Edit:  I know the difference between IHD and SMETS2 meters.  IHD is only used as a convenience to read the meters when I know they are not transmitting to Octopus.