Refusing a smart meter installation

User70200

I’ve had smart meters a couple of years and no real issues. The display can be interesting to start with, if you’re into that sort of thing, but mines been in the cupboard for a while now and use the daily readings on my online profile to track my usage as watching the needle go up and down whilst the machine goes through various bits of the cycle isn’t really that helpful.

Ultrasonic

Glum said:

Is anyone else aware of this pushy approach? Unless the suppliers start discounting bills for certain times of the day, I can't see how it can save any real money.

The purpose of a smart meter is not to save you money. From a customer perspective the main benefit is no longer having to send meter readings to your supplier, and the fact that your supplier having easy access to more data makes accurate billing/DDs easier. From a network perspective there are other benefits too which indirectly benefit us all.

Smart meters aren't compulsory yet but are pretty much bound to become so at some point.

For those on Economy 7/10 I have heard of some people having genuine problems which would make me advise caution but if this isn't you I'd suggest you just get a smart meter fitted.

[Deleted User]

Just to add one further point to this debate. BEIS has already developed a price comparison tool for time-of-use tariffs. This has become necessary because, in future, the present price comparison method of using kWh/year will not work for time-of-use tariffs. To get the cheapest overall tariff, the price comparison website needs actual profiled usage data ‘pulled’ from the consumer’s smart meter.

The ‘pulling’ of smart meter data will require the consumer’s prior approval and the price comparison website will either have to be a Registered DCC Other User or partner with an approved organisation such as TMA; Hildebrand etc.

Having had the opportunity to use a beta version of the tool, it appears to work very well. Many smart meter consumers are already happily using such tools as BRIGHT. The process of smart meter data extraction is the same - albeit, 30 minute data is being ‘pulled’ for the previous 12 month period. This is why smart meters store import data for 13 months.

wild666

[Deleted User] said:

We are all paying for the rollout of smart meters as part of our daily standing charge. If your supplier has deemed your existing meter to be end-of-life then they now have the right to fit a smart meter without your permission. They can also apply to a Court for a Warrant of Entry.

Reading forums such as MSE is not a good indicator of the state of smart metering. Smart meters will form a vital part of what will be a smart grid. Increasingly, we will see the introduction of time-of-use tariffs which will require a smart meter. Those that hold out will pay more for the flexibility of using energy whenever they want.

As I've said a few times a friend has had the texts, emails and letters telling him he is to have a smart meter installed on a date and he just cancels them saying his electric and gas usage hasn't increased or decreased over the 40 years he's being in his flat. They have used the end of life excuse a few times saying the meter could be giving inaccurate readings and he tells them to prove it at their expense and they drop the installation of the smart meters. 
IMHO, end of life means nothing if the meter is still giving accurate readings there are still meters reading in ft3 so should they have exchanged those meters to ones reading in M3? These meters are even older than the M3 meters and many, if not all, are still giving fairly accurate readings today.

Ultrasonic

wild666 said:

[Deleted User] said:

We are all paying for the rollout of smart meters as part of our daily standing charge. If your supplier has deemed your existing meter to be end-of-life then they now have the right to fit a smart meter without your permission. They can also apply to a Court for a Warrant of Entry.

Reading forums such as MSE is not a good indicator of the state of smart metering. Smart meters will form a vital part of what will be a smart grid. Increasingly, we will see the introduction of time-of-use tariffs which will require a smart meter. Those that hold out will pay more for the flexibility of using energy whenever they want.

As I've said a few times a friend has had the texts, emails and letters telling him he is to have a smart meter installed on a date and he just cancels them saying his electric and gas usage hasn't increased or decreased over the 40 years he's being in his flat. They have used the end of life excuse a few times saying the meter could be giving inaccurate readings and he tells them to prove it at their expense and they drop the installation of the smart meters. 
IMHO, end of life means nothing if the meter is still giving accurate readings there are still meters reading in ft3 so should they have exchanged those meters to ones reading in M3? These meters are even older than the M3 meters and many, if not all, are still giving fairly accurate readings today.

I'd imagine that at some point there would be a safety-related end-of-life, particularly where gas meters are concerned.

Also, if electricity usage hasn't changed in 40 years that would strongly suggest a fault to me!

[Deleted User]

wild666 said:

[Deleted User] said:

We are all paying for the rollout of smart meters as part of our daily standing charge. If your supplier has deemed your existing meter to be end-of-life then they now have the right to fit a smart meter without your permission. They can also apply to a Court for a Warrant of Entry.

Reading forums such as MSE is not a good indicator of the state of smart metering. Smart meters will form a vital part of what will be a smart grid. Increasingly, we will see the introduction of time-of-use tariffs which will require a smart meter. Those that hold out will pay more for the flexibility of using energy whenever they want.

As I've said a few times a friend has had the texts, emails and letters telling him he is to have a smart meter installed on a date and he just cancels them saying his electric and gas usage hasn't increased or decreased over the 40 years he's being in his flat. They have used the end of life excuse a few times saying the meter could be giving inaccurate readings and he tells them to prove it at their expense and they drop the installation of the smart meters. 
IMHO, end of life means nothing if the meter is still giving accurate readings there are still meters reading in ft3 so should they have exchanged those meters to ones reading in M3? These meters are even older than the M3 meters and many, if not all, are still giving fairly accurate readings today.

The supplier would be in breach of either The Electricity or The Gas Act if it uses an uncertified meter for billing. Age is not the only factor when it comes to meter life. Some models of meters are given repeated extensions based on in-use failures and further testing. Some meters are withdrawn at the end of the initial certification period.

For what it’s worth, I think holding out against smart meters will ultimately prove to be a futile exercise. Suppliers are struggling at the moment to install meters for consumers that want them: they can come after the ‘naysayers’ later.

pineapple

They can't fit smart meters everywhere even if the customer wants them. Next door got harangued and thought it was obligatory so she had them round and guess what - she can't have one due to the poor mobile phone signal. Which also applies to me.

QrizB

pineapple said:

They can't fit smart meters everywhere even if the customer wants them. Next door got harangued and thought it was obligatory so she had them round and guess what - she can't have one due to the poor mobile phone signal. Which also applies to me.

There is a new generation of comms hubs in the works which might (or might not) improve coverage. Current ones are only 2G/3G, but 4G hubs are due to be introduced from next year.

imeach

pineapple said:

They can't fit smart meters everywhere even if the customer wants them. Next door got harangued and thought it was obligatory so she had them round and guess what - she can't have one due to the poor mobile phone signal. Which also applies to me.

That never used to stop them being fitted.
They need to fit them, not necessarily have them working properly.
Some were fitted on the offchance that at some point coverage would improve and then some suppliers were fitting aerials on non communicating meters

QrizB

Glum said:

MWT said:

That information is incomplete and out of date unfortunately.

Thanks for the info. I see that Ofgem has similar information on https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter so I'm wondering if you have a link to the up-to-date regulations.

Ofgem's site (at your link) is unfortunately worded:

The "must install" in the first sentence overrides the customer choice mentioned further down in the box.

The latest Ofgem communication on the smart meter rollout seems to be this open letter:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/smart-meter-rollout-energy-suppliers-rollout-delivery-open-letter-march-2022