So the discretionary fund is.....**drumroll**.......£100 measly quid!?

fatbelly

Francis63 said:

What part of 'emergency payment' don't they understand? 

When is an emergency not an emergency?

When it doesn't impact them

QrizB

Francis63 said:

What part of 'emergency payment' don't they understand? 
When is an emergency not an emergency?

When oil and LPG are still cheaper than government-subsidised mains gas, it's hardly an emergency.

Here's the Boilerjuice chart for oil covering the last three months:

Mains gas at 10.3p/kWh is equivalent to about 108p/litre for oil, which is off the top of that chart.

Francis63

QrizB said:

Francis63 said:

What part of 'emergency payment' don't they understand? 
When is an emergency not an emergency?

When oil and LPG are still cheaper than government-subsidised mains gas, it's hardly an emergency.

Here's the Boilerjuice chart for oil covering the last three months:

Mains gas at 10.3p/kWh is equivalent to about 108p/litre for oil, which is off the top of that chart.

This is not relevant to the issue. The issue is why the emergency payment is not being paid yet and no dates or details.

In any case the last 3 months is all high (between 87p to 105p) when price is normally between 42p - 49p per litre 

So your graph is really neither relevant nor helpful.

Apodemus

I'm not sure we can really define "emergency" by any terms that everyone would agree on! 

I certainly remember times when oil prices were similar to today and I think there have been lots of times when it was more expensive than gas - were these "emergencies" too?

There is also the issue of how we pay for oil (by filling a tank in advance) compared to gas or electricity (where the price you pay tends to be the actual price today), so the "emergency" perhaps only arises at the point when you need to buy more oil, rather than on the day that price goes up?  Indeed, many people will currently still be burning oil that was (by today's prices) very cheap.

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

Zanderman

Apodemus said:

I'm not sure we can really define "emergency" by any terms that everyone would agree on! 

I certainly remember times when oil prices were similar to today and I think there have been lots of times when it was more expensive than gas - were these "emergencies" too?

There is also the issue of how we pay for oil (by filling a tank in advance) compared to gas or electricity (where the price you pay tends to be the actual price today), so the "emergency" perhaps only arises at the point when you need to buy more oil, rather than on the day that price goes up?  Indeed, many people will currently still be burning oil that was (by today's prices) very cheap.

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

Indeed. High prices are only a problem when you're buying. And oil/LPG/coal/Wood tends to be bought in bulk and stored. Unlike mains gas which is, in effect, bought daily (esp now fixes are so rare/poor).

I'm monitoring this promised £100 because I have an involvement with a house using LPG, with two sets of twin 47kg cylinders.  So far neither set need replacing this season, so there's no 'emergency' there yet, as all were bought 6 months ago. They will of course run out and so will have to buy more this winter, but not yet...

We're happy(ish) to wait for the handout...

maisie_cat

One of the interesting things about this is that gas has increased at a steeper rate than other fuels for heating, so I thought I'd compare for us.
I compared the 10000kWh of heating we consume with pellets against what gas would have been if we had mains gas. 
18 months ago our pellets cost £653 a year, now £1452, an increase of £799. But if we had gas the increase would have been £711 after the EPG is accounted for, so the £100 brings us broadly to par.
My gut is that we'll never get the payment though, it'll be quietly abandoned, the action is needed in London where everybody has mains gas.

Francis63

Apodemus said:

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

The problem is you can't just buy a little bit of oil to see you through. There is a minimum order of 500litres. 

So I just had to order that, partly on my overdraft, or freeze. Now that overdraft is expensive too - whilst I await my 100 pounds emergency payment. So everyday its costing me more money in interest - hence its an emergency and I need my 100 pounds asap to pay some of that off. 

propertyrental

Francis63 said:

Apodemus said:

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

The problem is you can't just buy a little bit of oil to see you through. There is a minimum order of 500litres. 

Well you can from a few suppliers eg
https:   //www.banbridgefuels.com/product/100-litres-home-heating-oil/

Or by the barrel/drum though it's more expensive.
https:   //www.compassfuels.co.uk/kerosene-barrels-compass-fuels/

dunstonh

Francis63 said:

Apodemus said:

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

The problem is you can't just buy a little bit of oil to see you through. There is a minimum order of 500litres. 

So I just had to order that, partly on my overdraft, or freeze. Now that overdraft is expensive too - whilst I await my 100 pounds emergency payment. So everyday its costing me more money in interest - hence its an emergency and I need my 100 pounds asap to pay some of that off. 

What did you do earlier in the year when oil was more expensive and there was no support scheme?

For example, 1000 litres are 120p was £1,200.   Today,  it's 85p.  So, 1000 litres is £850.  That is £350 difference.   

You may well find that your next 500 litres is 20p more a litre than then one you just ordered.

GrumpyDil

propertyrental said:

Francis63 said:

Apodemus said:

If someone has saved up to buy oil on the basis of 50p a litre instead of £1 a litre, they still have enough saved to buy half as much - so potentially the "emergency" only arises later in the winter, once that exponential halving of ever-smaller orders reaches zero? 

The problem is you can't just buy a little bit of oil to see you through. There is a minimum order of 500litres. 

Well you can from a few suppliers eg
https:   //www.banbridgefuels.com/product/100-litres-home-heating-oil/

Or by the barrel/drum though it's more expensive.
https:   //www.compassfuels.co.uk/kerosene-barrels-compass-fuels/

Just one minor point is that you are able to buy smaller amounts in Northern Ireland but on the mainland are limited to a minimum order of 500 litres or using the emergency cannisters that can be purchased.