So the discretionary fund is.....**drumroll**.......£100 measly quid!?

GrumpyDil

shinytop said:

It's going to have to be really, really simple.  Just give everyone without a mains gas account £100.  Anything else will cost too much and invite fraud.  So people with electric heating get a bit extra; so what?  They're probably paying more to heat their homes anyway.

Looks pretty much what they will be doing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-prices-bill-how-households-and-businesses-will-be-supported/how-households-and-businesses-will-be-supported-by-the-energy-prices-bill#alternative-fuel-payments-domestic

maisie_cat

Spoonie_Turtle said:

maisie_cat said:

Why make this so complicated? it's as though these senior public servants cannot make a decision. Having a separate scheme to pay £100 risks costing 3x that in admin.
Why not simply scrap the lot and give £100-£1400 or whatever to every household via the electricity account.
Pensioner & disabled households would still get extra cash so that covers additional needs.
Larger households mostly get extra money for children and adult larger households will have extra incomes.
People who run swimming pools, gaming rooms, "herb" farms will simply have to pay a higher amount as none of those things are essential.

This assumes that every disabled person who needs help is able to claim the qualifying benefit.  It's not that simple.  Scope says there are 14 million disabled people in the UK.  Only 6 million claim a disability benefit - the threshold for claiming is punishingly high, and the system is ridiculously inaccessible so that even if you do meet the criteria you have to actually be well enough to be able to claim and often fight (or have access to someone who understands the system and can fight for you).

[This is why talk of tiered tariffs bandied about with the comment 'with exceptions for medical needs/disability' is so flippant and shows absolutely no understanding of the reality of the medical or benefit systems.]

You're also forgetting households that don't have their own domestic electricity account, approximately 1%.  While they wait for the promised "equivalent support" at least those claiming relevant benefits are still able to access the other support for which they qualify.

Having a disability or condition does not necessarily lead to huge domestic energy bills.
My hubby has two congenital conditions and is incontinent. We don't claim anything but do have more washing and more showers than we otherwise would. It is not what I would call significant though, maybe 2 kWh a day. 

Spoonie_Turtle

maisie_cat said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

maisie_cat said:

Why make this so complicated? it's as though these senior public servants cannot make a decision. Having a separate scheme to pay £100 risks costing 3x that in admin.
Why not simply scrap the lot and give £100-£1400 or whatever to every household via the electricity account.
Pensioner & disabled households would still get extra cash so that covers additional needs.
Larger households mostly get extra money for children and adult larger households will have extra incomes.
People who run swimming pools, gaming rooms, "herb" farms will simply have to pay a higher amount as none of those things are essential.

This assumes that every disabled person who needs help is able to claim the qualifying benefit.  It's not that simple.  Scope says there are 14 million disabled people in the UK.  Only 6 million claim a disability benefit - the threshold for claiming is punishingly high, and the system is ridiculously inaccessible so that even if you do meet the criteria you have to actually be well enough to be able to claim and often fight (or have access to someone who understands the system and can fight for you).

[This is why talk of tiered tariffs bandied about with the comment 'with exceptions for medical needs/disability' is so flippant and shows absolutely no understanding of the reality of the medical or benefit systems.]

You're also forgetting households that don't have their own domestic electricity account, approximately 1%.  While they wait for the promised "equivalent support" at least those claiming relevant benefits are still able to access the other support for which they qualify.

Having a disability or condition does not necessarily lead to huge domestic energy bills.
My hubby has two congenital conditions and is incontinent. We don't claim anything but do have more washing and more showers than we otherwise would. It is not what I would call significant though, maybe 2 kWh a day. 

Indeed, but at the same time not everyone who does need extra help will get it because they either don't qualify for a relevant benefit, or they don't have the fight in them to get what they legitimately qualify for.

There's really no simple way to make sure it's equitably targeted.

jamesg123

Any movement on this payment? Last update will be paid via electric credit ✅ 
Question when will this be paid please? since announcement we have a new pm and an upcoming budget… is there a risk this £100 payment support will be u turned ? Thanks 

Zanderman

jamesg123 said:

Any movement on this payment? Last update will be paid via electric credit ✅ 
Question when will this be paid please? since announcement we have a new pm and an upcoming budget… is there a risk this £100 payment support will be u turned ? Thanks 

I don't think there's been any update since the announcement a few weeks ago that it would be via electricity companies and the government would announce the timing of it 'soon'.  

'Soon' could be tomorrow or in a months time or even after Christmas. 

At present no-one will know when it will be paid, or whether the new government supports it or not.

I would guess that there may be news when the budget is announced.

Be patient!  The Government is just recovering from two changes of leadership. And they don't usually move fast at the best of times. 

maisie_cat

I'm working on the basis that it will not be paid, our pellets have increased from £650 to £1320 , about the same as a gas heated household but nobody really cares.

ariarnia

even if it is then all the messages ive read seem now more focused on oil than wood or coal so i dont know if some will miss out anyway. just have to wait and see unfortunately. 

Zanderman

ariarnia said:

even if it is then all the messages ive read seem now more focused on oil than wood or coal so i dont know if some will miss out anyway. just have to wait and see unfortunately. 

The only wording (as far as I know) that's been given by Government is this:  

Alternative Fuel Payments (domestic)

This scheme is intended to deliver a one-off payment of £100 to UK households who are not on the mains gas grid and therefore use alternative fuels, such as heating oil, to heat their homes. Powers will enable the government to deliver support via electricity bills in both GB and NI, under a similar delivery model to the Energy Bills Support Scheme. The payment will ensure that a typical customer using heating oil does not face a higher rate of growth in their heating costs since last winter, in comparison to those using mains gas who are supported by the Energy Price Guarantee. The government will set out the timing of this payment soon.

Which is from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-prices-bill-how-households-and-businesses-will-be-supported/how-households-and-businesses-will-be-supported-by-the-energy-prices-bill#alternative-fuel-payments-domestic

The implication, though not stated explicitly, is that if you're not on the mains gas grid you'll get the extra payment - heating oil is simply quoted as an example ('such as heating oil'), but it must include, by implication, users of LPG, coal, wood and, also by implication, pure electric heating.

The point being that this won't be limited to oil-fired heating (can't actually as the database won't exist), it has to be assigned (in theory at least) to anyone without mains gas (as that database does exist).

But yes, we have to wait and see.

jamesg123

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2022-10-28/thousands-still-waiting-for-emergency-payment-to-help-with-heating-oil-bills

Francis63

What part of 'emergency payment' don't they understand? 

When is an emergency not an emergency?