Energy rationing

[Deleted User]

MarcoM said:

What would happen to those pets that require electricity and heating? for example fish or iguanas. You can't put thicker socks or cover these animals with a blanket to keep them warm.
If I were to deliberately turn off the heater and filter of my aquarium I could be charged with animal cruelty, could the government be the same in the absence of spcific legislation?

 The Government has to deal with the energy supply situation that it faces. If we end up in a situation that requires domestic energy rationing, then the Government has much more to worry about than exotic reptiles and fish. I very much doubt that you would have a case.

TheBanker

[Deleted User] said:

MarcoM said:

What would happen to those pets that require electricity and heating? for example fish or iguanas. You can't put thicker socks or cover these animals with a blanket to keep them warm.
If I were to deliberately turn off the heater and filter of my aquarium I could be charged with animal cruelty, could the government be the same in the absence of spcific legislation?

 The Government has to deal with the energy supply situation that it faces. If we end up in a situation that requires domestic energy rationing, then the Government has much more to worry about than exotic reptiles and fish. I very much doubt that you would have a case.

Indeed - if it comes to it the Government's priority will be people who need power for medical devices, or who have a medical need to keep warm. I'm sorry but I think tropical fish will be way down the list of priorities. Perhaps invest in a battery backup system? 

What do tropical fish owners do if there's an unplanned power cut e.g. due to a storm? This can't be a new problem?

deano2099

Malkytheheed said:

But there isn't a global energy shortage? 
People forget Russia only produce something like 15% of the worlds gas. And as far as I know it doesn't export any electricity. 

This is massively oversimplifying it, and others have explained the reality much better, but lets go with your figures and understand and extrapolate out from there.
That's 15% of the world's gas that we don't get access too, so that means we have to reduce the amount of gas we use by 15%. Because we use electricity generated by gas too, that also means reducing electricity by a similar amount.
Yes, lots of people are looking to reduce consumption over this winter because of bills. Lots of people aren't though. Lots of people are still fine and comfortable with the increased prices. And notably in business, it's an unpleasant expense but not many savings can be made. So yes, maybe we reduce our consumption collectively by 10%. Then you get a 5% shortfall, and so you hit a problem.
Maybe we reduce it by 20%. Therefore no problem. But there's no real way to predict consumer behaviour. We can predict how much energy we will have access to, and that's less than usual. Which on its own means a higher likelihood of blackouts.
But we can't predict how much people will reduce consumption by. Because this is a pretty unprecedented situation. We don't know how much people are going to value energy versus anything else. Most people *can* afford to keep using the same amount of energy they've always used. It'll mean making massive cuts to their lives elsewhere, it might mean giving up that one holiday a year they go on, it might mean giving up hobbies, it might mean giving up the pub, it might mean no Christmas presents... whatever. Or it might mean they keep all those things and use less energy.
Even for those who literally cannot afford it, some will simply choose to go into debt, not submit meter readings, put their fingers in their ears and just assume "we'll find the money later on". Most people aren't in a position where they will be instantly disconnected if they miss a bill. If someone stops paying in November we'll be out of the winter months before most energy companies will take action. Especially if those people do then engage with energy companies and work out payment plans etc, even if they later default on them.
So that's the great unknown in this, that we can't really model for. So to a degree we're assuming the worst, but in a way that helps as talk of blackouts and such will actually help encourage people to cut back. Especially people who aren't motivated by the money side. "Well yes, me and Tarquin are going to do our bit this winter, we've decided to only heat our hot-tub and not the entire pool! Have to help out where can!"

pensionpawn

TheBanker said:

pensionpawn said:

TheBanker said:

ariarnia said:

can someone recommend a power bank (or two)? i've seen lots of talk about them but i don't really understand the tech side of things.

in an emergency we've got up to 4 smartphones that might need a top up (though we could probably manage with just one or two). next priority would be an e-cig for the OH! after that (if it's a long cut) it would be good to be able to top up or charge two iPads and a MacBook air. 

is that something that's possible with a power bank or would that be too much realistically? we do keep things charged but if it's the end of a day or int he middle of the night the phones at least are normally charged over night so might be starting with less than full power or be cut off mid charge. 

I can't recommend a particular type. I bought mine from a phone shop, because I make some long journeys by train and you cannot always guarantee being able to charge up on board. They charge via a USB cable, which can then be used to power devices. 

I actually have two mobiles - my personal and work ones. Depending on when the outage happened, I would turn one of them off to save battery. I can't really do much personal stuff on my work one due to restrictions, but at the end of the day I can make calls, including to 999 if there was an emergency.

I think charging laptops would be unrealistic - and remember your router would be down so you'd need your phone charged to access the internet via 4G - in my experience using the phone as a hotspot kills the battery. 

My plans are not intended to enable me to carry on as usual - they're to let me quickly check the power company website, send/receive messages and make phone calls. I wouldn't be using my valuable power to kill time browsing MSE, for example. 

We always used to keep a "dumb" phone (plug in the wall and it works) in the cupboard just in case of a prolonged power cut and after mobiles have run out of charge. The traditional phone network has its own power supply to the door. Never needed it and threw it out recently when we migrated to fibre. The new house phone is IP and is only used to take incoming calls and complain to BT. Of course that will be useless in a power outage. Makes no difference as like everyone else we have power banks to charge them on the move. My wife bought me one recently that has a solar panel on one side (as well as mains charging). It takes ages (days / weeks) to charge from flat off solar, however it's a sensible idea, especially if you're also the outdoors sort of person.

I also have a dumb landline, but as you say the new IP based landline system (which everyone will use eventually) means it won't work in the future. 

For me, the single biggest requirement is being able to call 999. We are quite rural so it takes a while for help to arrive when we need it, I would hate that to be delayed further because of the lack of a working telephone. Everything else I can manage without, especially since any outages are likely to only be for a couple of hours in any one area.

Obviously everyone is different - for the elderly, disabled, people with medical conditions and those with young children there will be additional priorities. 

But the point is, if you know a power cut is likely, you can be prepared. If the government tell everyone not to worry, then it's only when the lights go out that you discover your torch isn't where you thought it was, the batteries have leaked and your phone  is on 9% charge!

Which also includes the grid planning for the charge / cooking etc power surge just prior to an outage!

ariarnia

MattMattMattUK said:

I forgot about the laptop one, I have three not two, they are all Anker ones (from Amazon), I have one 10,000 mAh one, a 20,000 mAh one and a 26,800 mAh one with 60w USB-C PD (which would give me most of a charge on my laptop). They are all fairly high capacity so in theory I could keep myself going for several days, but I only expect rolling blackouts to last 3-6 hours, so I could recharge in between. 

thanks for the specific recommendation. you're talking about this? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Double-Speed-Recharging/dp/B01JIWQPMW/ref=sr_1_3

for two adults and two kids with the devices i mentioned above would you recommend one or two? im not just thinking for this but we do travel around the uk at times and might spend 8 hours on a train so it would be useful for that too so i've been thinking about getting one for a while as I always worry a little we'll arrive somewhere and theirs a problem with the hotel but the phones are run down or whatever. 

i've sorted us all our winter wardrobes. everything is ready for the beds and curtains to be changed over to winter weight. cupboards are stocked up and we can cook fine on the stove if needed and we have torches/lanterns. so it's really just a power supply that's been on my preps list for a while. 

sienew

pensionpawn said:

TheBanker said:

pensionpawn said:

TheBanker said:

ariarnia said:

can someone recommend a power bank (or two)? i've seen lots of talk about them but i don't really understand the tech side of things.

in an emergency we've got up to 4 smartphones that might need a top up (though we could probably manage with just one or two). next priority would be an e-cig for the OH! after that (if it's a long cut) it would be good to be able to top up or charge two iPads and a MacBook air. 

is that something that's possible with a power bank or would that be too much realistically? we do keep things charged but if it's the end of a day or int he middle of the night the phones at least are normally charged over night so might be starting with less than full power or be cut off mid charge. 

I can't recommend a particular type. I bought mine from a phone shop, because I make some long journeys by train and you cannot always guarantee being able to charge up on board. They charge via a USB cable, which can then be used to power devices. 

I actually have two mobiles - my personal and work ones. Depending on when the outage happened, I would turn one of them off to save battery. I can't really do much personal stuff on my work one due to restrictions, but at the end of the day I can make calls, including to 999 if there was an emergency.

I think charging laptops would be unrealistic - and remember your router would be down so you'd need your phone charged to access the internet via 4G - in my experience using the phone as a hotspot kills the battery. 

My plans are not intended to enable me to carry on as usual - they're to let me quickly check the power company website, send/receive messages and make phone calls. I wouldn't be using my valuable power to kill time browsing MSE, for example. 

We always used to keep a "dumb" phone (plug in the wall and it works) in the cupboard just in case of a prolonged power cut and after mobiles have run out of charge. The traditional phone network has its own power supply to the door. Never needed it and threw it out recently when we migrated to fibre. The new house phone is IP and is only used to take incoming calls and complain to BT. Of course that will be useless in a power outage. Makes no difference as like everyone else we have power banks to charge them on the move. My wife bought me one recently that has a solar panel on one side (as well as mains charging). It takes ages (days / weeks) to charge from flat off solar, however it's a sensible idea, especially if you're also the outdoors sort of person.

I also have a dumb landline, but as you say the new IP based landline system (which everyone will use eventually) means it won't work in the future. 

For me, the single biggest requirement is being able to call 999. We are quite rural so it takes a while for help to arrive when we need it, I would hate that to be delayed further because of the lack of a working telephone. Everything else I can manage without, especially since any outages are likely to only be for a couple of hours in any one area.

Obviously everyone is different - for the elderly, disabled, people with medical conditions and those with young children there will be additional priorities. 

But the point is, if you know a power cut is likely, you can be prepared. If the government tell everyone not to worry, then it's only when the lights go out that you discover your torch isn't where you thought it was, the batteries have leaked and your phone  is on 9% charge!

Which also includes the grid planning for the charge / cooking etc power surge just prior to an outage!

The proposals for blackouts are pretty sophisticated and account for this. The entire country for example wouldn't be cut off at 6pm, it would be done by area at different times so the power surge would be spread over time. While your area might be charging/cooking/peaking usage ready for the blackout in an hour, my area might have been in blackout for 3 hours and another person might be 5 hours away from their blackout. They have done yearly planning for this for at least the past 50 years so are well prepared if it comes to blackouts.

deano2099

ariarnia said:

can someone recommend a power bank (or two)? i've seen lots of talk about them but i don't really understand the tech side of things.

in an emergency we've got up to 4 smartphones that might need a top up (though we could probably manage with just one or two). next priority would be an e-cig for the OH! after that (if it's a long cut) it would be good to be able to top up or charge two iPads and a MacBook air. 

is that something that's possible with a power bank or would that be too much realistically? we do keep things charged but if it's the end of a day or int he middle of the night the phones at least are normally charged over night so might be starting with less than full power or be cut off mid charge. 

It's fairly straightforward. Any powerbank will have a capacity in mAh. A decent size one is 20000mAh which will get you around 4 charges of a modern smartphone. You can get one for less than £50, Anker is a good brand in my experience. I'd say anything smaller than that isn't really worth it. You can go higher than that, but you're looking at £100+ then for 50000mAh or higher. Bear in mind that they also get heavier and bulkier so two smaller ones can be a better option if you think you might use them on the go or when camping etc. Any device you charge will also have a battery capacity, you can easily google that, then just work it out based on the capacity of the power bank. There's some loss as always but it's fairly close in my experience. This only holds for phones/tablets, once you get to laptops they're running at a higher voltage and it gets confusing.

QrizB

Regarding power banks, there's an alternative option. You could buy a spare laptop battery and charge your devices from your laptop.

Many (not all) laptops have a USB port that's permanently live, specifically to allow attached devices to run and charge when the laptop is off.

Laptop batteries can be fairly cheap; the last one I bought was about 60Wh (equivalent to a 16000mAh power bank) and cost under £20.

MattMattMattUK

ariarnia said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I forgot about the laptop one, I have three not two, they are all Anker ones (from Amazon), I have one 10,000 mAh one, a 20,000 mAh one and a 26,800 mAh one with 60w USB-C PD (which would give me most of a charge on my laptop). They are all fairly high capacity so in theory I could keep myself going for several days, but I only expect rolling blackouts to last 3-6 hours, so I could recharge in between. 

thanks for the specific recommendation. you're talking about this? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Double-Speed-Recharging/dp/B01JIWQPMW/ref=sr_1_3

for two adults and two kids with the devices i mentioned above would you recommend one or two? im not just thinking for this but we do travel around the uk at times and might spend 8 hours on a train so it would be useful for that too so i've been thinking about getting one for a while as I always worry a little we'll arrive somewhere and theirs a problem with the hotel but the phones are run down or whatever. 

I would probably go with one/some of the below as they sit at a far better price point. They will not charge a laptop whilst it is in use, but for phones and tablets they are more than adequate. How many and what mix would depend exactly on how much reserve power you want. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerCore-Technology-High-Capacity-Compatible-Black/dp/B07S829LBX?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-Ultra-Compact-High-Speed-VoltageBoost-Technology/dp/B07QXV6N1B?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerCore-20100-20000mAh-Technology-Black/dp/B00VJSGT2A?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

ariarnia said:

i've sorted us all our winter wardrobes. everything is ready for the beds and curtains to be changed over to winter weight. cupboards are stocked up and we can cook fine on the stove if needed and we have torches/lanterns. so it's really just a power supply that's been on my preps list for a while. 

I think most will be doing the same and it is only sensible to make some basic preparations. I bought some extra gas canisters for my camping stove, if it came to it I have about 3-4 weeks worth of cooking capacity if I stuck to fairly basic stuff in a pan, and it is something I will use next year anyway so it is not a loss to prepare. 

ariarnia

MattMattMattUK said:
 I bought some extra gas canisters for my camping stove, if it came to it I have about 3-4 weeks worth of cooking capacity if I stuck to fairly basic stuff in a pan, and it is something I will use next year anyway so it is not a loss to prepare. 

bought a big bag of corn kernels earlier. i think the kids are now hoping for power cuts as an excuse to stuff themselves with popcorn