Energy rationing

jj_43

Does anyone know the highest imbalance price?

GingerTim

70sbudgie said:

The National Grid has warned of blackouts every winter for the last few years.

Around the end of August, they predict how much electricity will be required (based on long range weather forecasts among other things) and compare that to total installed capacity. Wind is intermittent generation, so doesn't contribute its full capacity to the calculation. The figure that is published is how much excess capacity there is. That figure has been consistently reducing over the years as more and therefore a higher proportion of intermittent (most renewables) is installed.

The "back up" generators that can turn on at relatively short notice are often gas. And although there are heavy penalties for not generating when notified, the price of gas may make some generators decide that it is less costly to take the penalty.

So the only difference this year is the anticipated price of the gas supply. 

The reason it is being discussed now is to prepare people and hopefully effect some demand side management, therefore avoiding the need for controlled blackouts.

(Anyone that remembers Y2K has lived through an example of where the panic actually resulted in nothing particularly bad happening)

Although there was a lot of planning for Y2K to ensure that nothing bad happened, too!

pensionpawn

[Deleted User] said:

TheBanker said:

[Deleted User] said:

NoobSolar said:

Power walls I believe (stress believe, not certain) will operate in a black out

Powerwalls will continue to operate in a Grid outage but only if the incoming Grid supply is routed through a Tesla Gateway which adds to the cost of the installation.

The Gateway not only deals with Grid outages but it also monitors Grid frequency and voltage. If either are outside limits, the Gateway will step in and disconnect the property from the Grid supply. It happened to me three times last Winter because of high voltages. The Grid voltage to my home has now been reduced by the DNO based initially on voltage information from my smart meter.

A passing comment on rotational Grid outages. These will be planned at a regional level to ensure that voltage and frequency limits are maintained. 

Smart meters do have build in remote disconnection switches; however, the amount of effort required by suppliers to use these switches for rotational power outages would be disproportionate. It’s a bit like a consumer deciding to get his/her import to zero by turning off every switch; socket in the house. Why would anyone do that when there is one large switch in the meter box or an incoming RCD in the consumer box? Grid operators and DNOs will manage rotational outages.

It's not just the effort required. Current government policy is to encourage installation of smart meters. If they started using these meters to disconnect people to manage demand (while people with old fashioned meters were still connected), then it would kill the installation campaign dead. 

We have already seen potential plans to use smart meters to manage demand, by offering financial incentives for reducing consumption during peak periods. This is probably the only role smart meters will play in managing demand this winter. 

I agree: an analogue meter offers no protection from rotational power cuts.

Demand limits for smart-metered homes will be introduced via pricing. Suppliers will begin to offer tariffs with an instant power limit of, say, 4kW at certain times of the day. A consumer on a 4kW limited tariff will pay less for his/her energy than a consumer on, say, a 7kW tariff. Breaches of the agreed power limit will result in warnings via IHD; text etc. If no action is taken, then remote disconnection will be activated. The consumer then calls a dedicated number to get power restored. Frequent disconnections will be deemed a breach of contract, and the consumer will be moved to a tariff with a higher instant power limit.

Is the communication of customer usage data via the same transmission system as the control signals that would be required to implement demand limits? If so there may be a problem. In order to retain E7 I had to (didn't want to) move to a "smart" meter as the mechanism for the E7 timing signal was changing. All well and good until in July my energy company asked me to start giving them readings again as they had lost communications with the "smart" meter. It appears to have reconnected again this week. Sounds a tad unreliable to me.

pensionpawn

Interesting websites:
https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand/percent
https://grid.iamkate.com/

Why no solar generation at 09:30? I'm currently exporting 2.1 kWs.

TheBanker

MattMattMattUK said:

RobM99 said:

I have my rechargeable batteries so at least, if cuts happen, I won't be kept in the dark!

I've got a couple of power banks, a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a Nintendo Switch, a gas camping stove and plenty of warm clothes, if there is a power cut I will just watch content on my phone/tablet/laptop and play games until it comes back on. If it lasts too long I will go to work (different town, so unlikely to be on the same rolling blackout cycle) and has backup generators (with several weeks worth of fuel on site) so I can recharge everything and have a hot shower there, I could even cook if I wanted to.

I've got all of this, except the option to go into work. We have a generator but it won't power the whole building, it's designed to keep critical services ticking over. I could hopefully go to a friend or relatives though, if they still had power.

I can cope without power, it's not pleasant but like you I am prepared. I have power banks, I'll keep my devices charged, keep the car topped up with petrol and am happy to entertain myself by listening to the radio or reading. I have a gas hob, so should be ok for heating food. Obviously if the power cuts are planned it becomes a lot easier because you can warm food up before hand and make sure everything is charged to full capacity, torches are to hand etc. 

My fear is that some people will resort to silly measures due to a lack of planning. For example trying to start a fire when the chimney hasn't been swept/maintained, using camping stoves indoors without thinking of the risk of Carbon Monoxide, using candles without fully considering the fire-risk. This is why people should be warned, so they can prepare and know what is/is not sensible to do during a power cut.

RobM99

Safety is a vital point here. It's not worth blowing yourself up to save a few pounds!

ariarnia

can someone recommend a power bank (or two)? i've seen lots of talk about them but i don't really understand the tech side of things.

in an emergency we've got up to 4 smartphones that might need a top up (though we could probably manage with just one or two). next priority would be an e-cig for the OH! after that (if it's a long cut) it would be good to be able to top up or charge two iPads and a MacBook air. 

is that something that's possible with a power bank or would that be too much realistically? we do keep things charged but if it's the end of a day or int he middle of the night the phones at least are normally charged over night so might be starting with less than full power or be cut off mid charge. 

RobM99

@ariarnia  With phones, make sure unused app's are switched off. Running them in the background uses battery power.

Malkytheheed

pensionpawn said:

Interesting websites:
https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand/percent
https://grid.iamkate.com/

Why no solar generation at 09:30? I'm currently exporting 2.1 kWs.

the nuclear numbers don't reflect accurately on the graphs? 

Section62

NoobSolar said:

All those empty gasometers are starting to look like slightly more than the nostalgic legacy of an industrial past.

How many hours of UK gas consumpion could all those empty gasometers have held? They were a legacy of an industrial past in which each town manufactured its own gas from coal and needed to store production throughout the day - at approximately supply pressure - to cope with peak demand. With a national grid connecting towns, and the ability to store gas within the distributionsystem at high pressure, the need for those giant expensive-to-maintain storage facilities ceased to exist.