Energy rationing

TheBanker

[Deleted User] said:

TheBanker said:

[Deleted User] said:

NoobSolar said:

Power walls I believe (stress believe, not certain) will operate in a black out

Powerwalls will continue to operate in a Grid outage but only if the incoming Grid supply is routed through a Tesla Gateway which adds to the cost of the installation.

The Gateway not only deals with Grid outages but it also monitors Grid frequency and voltage. If either are outside limits, the Gateway will step in and disconnect the property from the Grid supply. It happened to me three times last Winter because of high voltages. The Grid voltage to my home has now been reduced by the DNO based initially on voltage information from my smart meter.

A passing comment on rotational Grid outages. These will be planned at a regional level to ensure that voltage and frequency limits are maintained. 

Smart meters do have build in remote disconnection switches; however, the amount of effort required by suppliers to use these switches for rotational power outages would be disproportionate. It’s a bit like a consumer deciding to get his/her import to zero by turning off every switch; socket in the house. Why would anyone do that when there is one large switch in the meter box or an incoming RCD in the consumer box? Grid operators and DNOs will manage rotational outages.

It's not just the effort required. Current government policy is to encourage installation of smart meters. If they started using these meters to disconnect people to manage demand (while people with old fashioned meters were still connected), then it would kill the installation campaign dead. 

We have already seen potential plans to use smart meters to manage demand, by offering financial incentives for reducing consumption during peak periods. This is probably the only role smart meters will play in managing demand this winter. 

I agree: an analogue meter offers no protection from rotational power cuts.

Demand limits for smart-metered homes will be introduced via pricing. Suppliers will begin to offer tariffs with an instant power limit of, say, 4kW at certain times of the day. A consumer on a 4kW limited tariff will pay less for his/her energy than a consumer on, say, a 7kW tariff. Breaches of the agreed power limit will result in warnings via IHD; text etc. If no action is taken, then remote disconnection will be activated. The consumer then calls a dedicated number to get power restored. Frequent disconnections will be deemed a breach of contract, and the consumer will be moved to a tariff with a higher instant power limit.

I can see it working a bit like mobile phone tariffs. You get certain allowances at lower rates depending on your plan. If you go over, you don't get cut off but you pay through the nose for the extra. I see this being part of a more up to date version of Economy 7, where you have different allowances/prices for peak and ff peak usage. 

Meanwhile, those who do not have smart meters will just pay the higher standard rate at all times.

jj_43

Malkytheheed said:

Can someone explain to me why, in a winter where the nation will be using way less energy (both gas and electric) than usual as everyone cuts back, we are facing the prospect of blackouts!?! I mean what the hell?

Also in winter we typically generate much more power from wind farms. 

Some people are being alarmist and stating blackouts are likely. It is very unlikely that blackouts will occur. As you say efforts will be made at reducing demand first. Before a blackout situation prices will be extremely high ( 10 times current levels).

We should know the details of the energy bailout by next week, and I am sure they will ruzzle up a nuclear power station or two.

TheBanker

jj_43 said:

Malkytheheed said:

Can someone explain to me why, in a winter where the nation will be using way less energy (both gas and electric) than usual as everyone cuts back, we are facing the prospect of blackouts!?! I mean what the hell?

Also in winter we typically generate much more power from wind farms. 

Some people are being alarmist and stating blackouts are likely. It is very unlikely that blackouts will occur. As you say efforts will be made at reducing demand first. Before a blackout situation prices will be extremely high ( 10 times current levels).

We should know the details of the energy bailout by next week, and I am sure they will ruzzle up a nuclear power station or two.

As I said before, I don't think blackouts are likely (apart from the occasional ones that happen every winter due to bad weather or whatever). But I don't think they are beyond the realms of possibility either. I think the Government should be honest that they could happen, so that people can make basic preparations (as I said before, making sure the torch has working batteries at a minimum). No politician should be saying there won't be blackouts, as they simply cannot guarantee that. Rather reminds me of December 2020, when Boris Johnson said there wouldn't be any Covid Christmas restrictions! 

MattMattMattUK

jj_43 said:

Malkytheheed said:

Can someone explain to me why, in a winter where the nation will be using way less energy (both gas and electric) than usual as everyone cuts back, we are facing the prospect of blackouts!?! I mean what the hell?

Also in winter we typically generate much more power from wind farms. 

Some people are being alarmist and stating blackouts are likely. It is very unlikely that blackouts will occur. As you say efforts will be made at reducing demand first. Before a blackout situation prices will be extremely high ( 10 times current levels).

Prices will not be ten times higher before blackouts, if costs got to £5.50 per kWh the chances of blackouts would be almost zero as even with no gas demand would not exceed supply.

jj_43 said:

We should know the details of the energy bailout by next week, and I am sure they will ruzzle up a nuclear power station or two.

I would not be too hopeful, after all it is Truss. They are unlikely to be able to "ruzzle up" nuclear power plants, they take 4-10 years to build and commission, they are not something that can be knocked up in a week or two, if they were that easy to build there would be no energy issues.

RobM99

I have my rechargeable batteries so at least, if cuts happen, I won't be kept in the dark!

MattMattMattUK

RobM99 said:

I have my rechargeable batteries so at least, if cuts happen, I won't be kept in the dark!

I've got a couple of power banks, a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a Nintendo Switch, a gas camping stove and plenty of warm clothes, if there is a power cut I will just watch content on my phone/tablet/laptop and play games until it comes back on. If it lasts too long I will go to work (different town, so unlikely to be on the same rolling blackout cycle) and has backup generators (with several weeks worth of fuel on site) so I can recharge everything and have a hot shower there, I could even cook if I wanted to.

Malkytheheed

If the price of electricity is rising faster than gas. And we are told its because of gas power stations. 

That would suggest that gas power stations are hugely inefficient. and actually I'd be better using gas to create my own electricity at home? Something strange going on. 

Malkytheheed

RobM99 said:

I have my rechargeable batteries so at least, if cuts happen, I won't be kept in the dark!

I have a two stroke generator in the shed that would give me 1000w if I need to. But I've no issue reading a book by candlelight or going for a walk every so often. It's not the end of the world. 

RobM99

MattMattMattUK said:

RobM99 said:

I have my rechargeable batteries so at least, if cuts happen, I won't be kept in the dark!

I've got a couple of power banks, a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a gas camping stove and plenty of warm clothes...

Same here, plus solar panels and some wood (originally for camp fires but who knows now!).

70sbudgie

The National Grid has warned of blackouts every winter for the last few years.

Around the end of August, they predict how much electricity will be required (based on long range weather forecasts among other things) and compare that to total installed capacity. Wind is intermittent generation, so doesn't contribute its full capacity to the calculation. The figure that is published is how much excess capacity there is. That figure has been consistently reducing over the years as more and therefore a higher proportion of intermittent (most renewables) is installed.

The "back up" generators that can turn on at relatively short notice are often gas. And although there are heavy penalties for not generating when notified, the price of gas may make some generators decide that it is less costly to take the penalty.

So the only difference this year is the anticipated price of the gas supply. 

The reason it is being discussed now is to prepare people and hopefully effect some demand side management, therefore avoiding the need for controlled blackouts.

(Anyone that remembers Y2K has lived through an example of where the panic actually resulted in nothing particularly bad happening)