Bi-wiring speakers. Really?!

Ergates

Jenni_D said:

Remember that this is a MAINS cable and not an HDMI cable. If there are issues with the domestic supply (electrical noise, e.g. from other devices) then something which helps to clean that up can help (where the onboard electronics are not optimal at doing so). That can mean less interference making its way through to the video output.

But very expensive HDMI cables are largely snake oil - as mentioned before an HDMI cable is only carrying 1s and 0s.

PS - that linked review is very sparse on detail; it's just a brief description and a subjective opinion - no comparative tests or justifying data at all (that I can see). So I wouldn't take too big a slice of pie on the basis of that alone.  

Yes, but that doesn't actually matter.  Everything that happens with the sky box, the signal coming from the satellite, the decompression and unscrambling of the signal and the transmission of the signal to the TV is digital.

The algorithms used in the box to process the signal can change and can impact the picture quality. Loss of quality can include screen artifacts, stuttering and general fuzziness.  There is literally no way a change ot the power cable can increase the brightness of the colours because that's simply not how any of the technology involved at any link in the chain works.

Ergates

Username03725 said:

Olinda99 said:

"So like I said, why on earth would I want to do that, other than to satisfy some chippy bloke on the inter- net who can't possibly imagine that cables do make a difference?"

Cables most certainly do make a difference. The question is if your (or anyone's) particular swap makes a difference or is it all imagined? That is not to be chippy or snide - it is simply what could happen. 

I reported what happened; you implicitly called me a liar and too stupid to grasp blind testing. That’s being chippy.

Carry on all. I can see you’re all desperate to be right and to be seen to be right and that bi-wiring, bi-amping, improved mains or speaker cables can never make any difference. I’ll just enjoy my system satisfied that it’s better than it was when I took it out of its boxes thanks to smoke, mirrors, snakes and their oily byproducts. Radio 3 HD is particularly good.

No, they implicitly called you wrong.   To be a liar would imply you knew what you were saying was wrong but said it anyway.   Nobody is saying that - we're just saying that what you believe has happened can't possibly have happened ergo you are mistaken.

The people who are liars are the people who sold you that cable.

Ergates

Username03725 said:

Well, here we are... 

Ergates said:

The output from a skybox is via HDMI.  This is a digital signal, streams of 1s and 0s, that your TV interprets into a picture.  It doesn't have separate streams for colour or brightness.  The result you're observing is *literally* impossible - no amount of footling about with a sky box can change the properties of the picture output.  Only software updates, satelite broadcast changes and movement/damage to the dish can do that.

Ergates at a stroke has instantly dismissed years of R&D in the industry  

No, I've instantly dismissed thousands of pounds of marketing hot air.

When it comes to CD players - the actual reading of the CD will be exactly the same for even the cheapest player because it's digital information.   However, the next step where the digital information is turned into an analog signal for the speakers - there is obviously a lot of room for variability there.   So yes, there is reason to pick and choose your CD player and better ones are quite likely to sound better than cheaper ones - to a degree.

When it comes to DVD player though - no, there is no need to spend more.  It's digital information on the disc read and converted to a digital signal to send to the TV.  There is no room for interpretation or improvement, it'll work on it won't.   The only thing you might want to spend more on is one that can play blu-ray.   Or, I suppose, if your DVD player had an integrated DAC and connected directly to your sound system - I don't know if such things exist.  The sound transmitted down the HDMI cable is digital, so it can't affect the sound quality via that route.

Ergates

wongataa said:

In that linked review it is stated:

Used in a video discipline, the Ecosse offers greater certainty where movement and edges are concerned, deepens black shades and offers great punch to high-contrast scenes. Colours are bolder, details more numerous.

This is impossible with digital video sources and interconnects.  They just publish the product makers wild made up claims.

That's one of the most brilliant pieces of horse manure I've ever seen.

What is more remarkable is that the person who wrote that got paid to do so...

Bendy_House

Username03725 said:

Ergates at a stroke has instantly dismissed years of R&D in the industry by proving that there's no need to buy anything other than the cheapest CD or DVD player, as all they do is spin the disc, extract the bits and fire them down the interconnect. Blow me, I wish I'd known.

Clearly that isn't the case. But your example has nothing to do with the connecting cables at the digital stage.

Of course, high-end CD players sound better, but that is down to the electronics used in the DACs, for example, the bit-transfer rate, the sheer quality of the components in the analogue stage. Ie, how well they convert and colour the sound.

A totally different issue.

Bendy_House

Jenni_D said:

Remember that this is a MAINS cable and not an HDMI cable. If there are issues with the domestic supply (electrical noise, e.g. from other devices) then something which helps to clean that up can help (where the onboard electronics are not optimal at doing so). That can mean less interference making its way through to the video output.

But very expensive HDMI cables are largely snake oil - as mentioned before an HDMI cable is only carrying 1s and 0s.

PS - that linked review is very sparse on detail; it's just a brief description and a subjective opinion - no comparative tests or justifying data at all (that I can see). So I wouldn't take too big a slice of pie on the basis of that alone.  

Thank you for pulling me back from my crazy lapse. :-)

I've since been mulling over this, and when you consider the whopping HUGE mains 'hum' that the device's PSU circuits HAVE to smooth out, consisting of literally hundreds of volts!, and that they obviously do this very effectively - when was the last time you heard 'hum' from a half-decent radio, TV or HiFi? No, nor me - then it is surely extremely implausible that any infinitesimally-small amount of interference collected by the mains cable has a cat-in-hell's chance of getting through the PSU stage, and certainly not to a degree that could detectably affect the subsequent circuits.

Jeepers - what on earth was I thinking of, giving any semblance of credibility to that 'review'! I hang my head in shame. As should WhatHiFi.

So, yes, I hereby nail my colours to the cynic's mast through a dollop of simple reason - these big orange cables are a con.

Until the time comes - which it won't - where it is scientifically demonstrated to have an effect. Beyond emptying pockets.

Bendy_House

Ergates said:

That's one of the most brilliant pieces of horse manure I've ever seen.

What is more remarkable is that the person who wrote that got paid to do so...

Even more unfortunate is the way it taints every other review they publish.

debitcardmayhem

My word, words like snake oil, 1s and 0s , cable attenuation etc !!!!!! .

Are your ears perfectly able to determine such nuances in EACH ear equally ? OK I'll leave my coat it's too hot to get it and my hat 

Oh as if your opinions are going to make everyone else bow down to your knowledge. It is all about the perception of each of your lug holes, being able to convert analogue sound waves to 1's and 0's to transfer that to the the CPU (your brain) and then the brain may be a celeron or an i9 24 core beast and it spits out the answer you expect. All other points are moot

Username03725

Ergates said:

No, they implicitly called you wrong.   To be a liar would imply you knew what you were saying was wrong but said it anyway.   Nobody is saying that - we're just saying that what you believe has happened can't possibly have happened ergo you are mistaken.

The people who are liars are the people who sold you that cable.

Oh man this gets better and better. 


So now I'm not a liar, just too stupid to believe that when I swapped the lead on the Sky box, and suddenly the lovely picture that I'd achieved by carefully tweaking all the TV settings had now gone, that didn't happen? That I then had to go back and adjust the brightness, gamma, colour, blah blah because although it looked so different now it, that just couldn't have happened, because errmm... Ergates says so?  Right. And my wife noticing that it was 'nicer' - that just didn't happen? I swap the mains lead; it now looks wrong because everything is just a bit more so, but that really didn't happen, it's just me so desperate to believe that some guy on eBay hasn't ripped me off for £30 that I've decided to fiddle with everything on the Picture menu just to convince myself? Really? Seriously?

I then see that What HiFi reported it (I saw that same review after I bought the lead), and despite what you all claim they don't do glowing reviews based on ad spend, and I've never seen The Big Orange Lead advertised in there anyway. The guy who sold it on eBay just listed it for what was - an upgraded mains lead that was suitable for a Sky box. And the guy on the Naim forum who first raised it - with the same incredulity that you're showing - he lied too did he, or is also a bit too thick to realise that what his eyes also perceive as a better picture was just his wallet playing tricks and he should know better?

Honestly. It worked. Just like replacing the std mains lead with a Naim Powerline on my 300DR amp's power supply gave a noticeable improvement. Just like using the Powerline that came with the PS555 to power the 272 (since sold) provided a noticeable lift over the std one that I'd been using as I too didn't think it would make a difference.

Sneer all you like. But trying to claim to someone who is quite picky about picture and sound quality, that improvements that were clearly present just couldn't have happened because you don't think it's possible, is a little bit silly.

Bendy_House

debitcardmayhem said:

My word, words like snake oil, 1s and 0s , cable attenuation etc !!!!!! .

Are your ears perfectly able to determine such nuances in EACH ear equally ? OK I'll leave my coat it's too hot to get it and my hat 

Oh as if your opinions are going to make everyone else bow down to your knowledge. It is all about the perception of each of your lug holes, being able to convert analogue sound waves to 1's and 0's to transfer that to the the CPU (your brain) and then the brain may be a celeron or an i9 24 core beast and it spits out the answer you expect. All other points are moot

It ain't the ears, pal, it's the bit in-between

My new aquisition - the bargain B&Ws - came with it's wee booklet. It cautions against your response to it's first hearing, that you may be taken aback, find it too harsh, too sharp, too revealing, too shocking, too whatevs. It suggests a burning-in time as the sound will likely become more to your taste over a few weeks. It then - thankfully honestly, tho' tactfully - points out that it'll be the listener's ears/expectations that'll likely change, and not the actual speakers. 

Too bludy true.