Bi-wiring speakers. Really?!

[Deleted User]

 Straight away the picture was wrong, ergo it had changed. You can tell me it didn’t all you like; it had.

I agree, you experienced a well-known distortion of cause and effect that is explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

Scientifically, please explain how the power cable alters the brightness and colour reproduction?

Equally, can you explain how the ABX test that I linked to above showed no statistically significant effect? Did you read it?

Bendy_House

Username03725 said:

I'll bite.

Ok?

Thanks for replying, Username.

I have to be blunt, tho', and state the obvious - your 6 paragraphs above prove nothing, and only go to emphasise again that there is nothing credible behind the products being discussed, only claim and hearsay and hyperbole.

And your cause isn't at all being helped by trying to accuse others of what has demonstrably been your behaviour on here throughout.

I'll ask again - who is 'Mr Angry'? Who is 'getting all uppity'? Yes, I am asking you to answer these.

Because, only one of us has also said the following on here;

a queue of cynical punters

If you need to be convinced and see it all as a con, step away

There's no right or wrong answer, just your own attitude and opinion.

Why on earth would I want to do that?

This all makes me smile tbh

It doesn't matter one jot to me if these diffs are actually purely psychological, even though I'm happy to say they're not.

Why would I engage in a blind test facilitated by a 3rd party to prove what I've already seen and am happy with?

Ergates at a stroke has instantly dismissed years of R&D in the industry by proving that there's no need to buy anything other than the cheapest CD or DVD player, as all they do is spin the disc, extract the bits and fire them down the interconnect. Blow me, I wish I'd known.

Feel free to miss out on that, in your eagerness to prove to yourself that you're no mug and won't be caught out by these dodgy misleading snake oil smoke & mirrors salesmen. Well played.

I reported what happened; you implicitly called me a liar and too stupid to grasp blind testing. That’s being chippy.

Carry on all. I can see you’re all desperate to be right and to be seen to be right

Oh man this gets better and better. :-) :-) :-)

So now I'm not a liar, just too stupid to believe…

Give it up mate.

Thought I'd look in to see how it's going... Oh my word - talk about angry old men shouting at clouds... Ho ho ho. Come on chaps, get a grip. It's just audio. And video.

But no; it seems that each protagonist has to keep banging on getting ever more steamed up about something that doesn't really matter. 

I didn't expect to be called a liar, stupid, to have it explained to me how Google could educate me on blind tests etc, or to be on the end of a dose of the ultimate in mansplaining being hurled my way by the angriest of the lot,

I'm out; you chaps carry on shouting into the wilderness.

Fill your boots Bendy; you want to put a stop to this sort of absolute filth yeah?

Have a nice day y'all. I've got Radio Paradise [Canadian streamed radio  station on a FLAC feed] on the big stereo with the TdF on Eurosport on mute. Is good ya?

Ciao.

Have I looked in? No. Hols, busy, better things to do than argue about this sort of thing forever etc; but I just looked in and was surprised to see this thread still on the first page of Techie so had a peek.

Bendy_House

Username03725 said:

No doubt you’ll tell me that’s not true. You’ll have to explain to my wife how she was wrong too when she looked up and noticed that the picture looked a little bit nicer.

But underneath all this is the same question as my last post. Why oh why oh why are you desperate to tell me that my experiences - audio and visual - can’t possibly have happened? I’m happy that the tv is better, so is the stereo. What’s your beef with me enjoying it more? Can I not be allowed to just enjoy them both, knowing that a) I had to lower the brightness and colour settings, and b) Ken Bruce, R4 newsreaders and most musicians that I listen to sound wonderful, and sound a wee bit better than before the Powerlines went in?

This is not a personal attack on you or your wife. And it would be really good if you stopped trying to claim such perceived slights - there aren't any.

You are completely free to enjoy the picture and audio you have obtained, in whatever way you have obtained them. Honestly you are. If you believe it to be true - and you seem to - then that's great. Or, in your words, 'fill your boots'.

We are equally entitled to challenge the extraordinary claims made, when they are seemingly not credible, often quite implausible, and - mainly - when they are not backed by any evidence.

As Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.

And the thing is, Ecosse, QSA et al would find it extraordinarily easy to provide this evidence if it existed.

Why are they so coy?

[Deleted User]

And the thing is, Ecosse, QSA et al would find it extraordinarily easy to provide this evidence if it existed.

Yep, tools exist to do this scientifically, if the claimed changes in colour and brightness were easily perceived by the human eye, then tools like this would be a small investment to prove the claims scientifically and beyond refute.

https://www.kleininstruments.com/k-80

Seems that the power cable manufacturers don't feel that a £1 each per 5,000 units sold investment is worth it for providing absolute proof.

Bendy_House

Deleted_User said:

And the thing is, Ecosse, QSA et al would find it extraordinarily easy to provide this evidence if it existed.

Yep, tools exist to do this scientifically, if the claimed changes in colour and brightness were easily perceived by the human eye, then tools like this would be a small investment to prove the claims scientifically and beyond refute.

https://www.kleininstruments.com/k-80

Seems that the power cable manufacturers don't feel that a £1 each per 5,000 units sold investment is worth it for providing absolute proof.

The thing is, if they could prove it, they'd sell more; fact-based folk like me and you would buy them too :-)

ouch...

[Deleted User]

Bendy_House said:

Deleted_User said:

And the thing is, Ecosse, QSA et al would find it extraordinarily easy to provide this evidence if it existed.

Yep, tools exist to do this scientifically, if the claimed changes in colour and brightness were easily perceived by the human eye, then tools like this would be a small investment to prove the claims scientifically and beyond refute.

https://www.kleininstruments.com/k-80

Seems that the power cable manufacturers don't feel that a £1 each per 5,000 units sold investment is worth it for providing absolute proof.

The thing is, if they could prove it, they'd sell more; fact-based folk like me and you would buy them too :-)

ouch...

Yep and this type of thing is done regularly, the guys over at https://www.notebookcheck.net/ regularly test the quality of the screen using a colourimeter.

It would take very little effort to get the results that @Username03725 claims by doing tests like this:




It seems @Username03725 is very naive about accurate colour reproduction to the extent that they override manufacturer settings with their own manual adjustments because they think they know better. And claim a difference with a power cord even though they haven't provided any evidence by using a colourimeter.

Even one of these devices for £228 would provide evidence of what @Username03725 claims to have seen:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0076A620Y

Find me a test with an expensive power cord and results from such as device and I will eat humble pie if they show a difference.

debitcardmayhem

I wonder if one of these cables will improve my hi-fi ? my turntable is an SME model 60 , Linn klimax  DSM AV, Nagra Pre/Power Amp, Logitech Z220 Speakers. Cost immense, well except the speakers which I found in my neighbours skip, but I don't think the whole system sounds too bad to my ears  

Perhaps this is the answer of my dreams

Bendy_House

You can but try.

What do you have to lose?


Money, credibility, dignity...

Username03725

I'm out guys. I knew it was a mistake to come back on here and respond, and so it's proved with the snide responses and now the petty nudge nudge personal attacks that go with the belittling of any suggestion that cables can and do make a difference. Now I'm being invited to explain the science behind it and spend £228 to prove to myself that my £30 lead really did work. Seriously guys? I'm not the spokesman for the industry. I'm the satisfied customer, one of many. I just made the mistake of sticking my head above the parapet. Internet pile-ons aren't for me thanks, so I'm off.

Chill guys. I know you really want to be right but just saying nah that can't have happened doesn't cut it for me. You want evidence? Stroll into any decent hifi dealer and ask for a demo, laying on your dismissive attitudes in spades. At the very least you'll get a good chat and a nice cup of coffee and the chance to hear what a decent audio system can do, with & without an upgraded mains lead. What you won't see is graphs & charts. The industry abandoned that years ago - music is about feeling, not co-ordinates on a sheet of A4.

Carry on enjoying yourselves with your dismissal of this stuff. I'll carry on being happy that my tv was better, and so was the audio system. 

Bendy_House

Irony doesn't even begin...

No-one has actually suggested that you spend anything in order to prove this either way, Username. I have repeatedly pondered why Ecosse and QSA and all their like-minded snake-oil companies don't provide evidence when it would be so easy to do. They would have instant credibility, see their sales increase dramatically, and would stop having folk like you being annoyed by folk like me on forums like this.

As for 'snide', just re-read all the comments made by you throughout this thread, and compare them with those made by others. No contest. Ergates even apologised in case he made an inadvertent slight against someone, and that was for a far lesser (in fact I think non-existent) crime.

You are expecting rational folk on here to take your word on such an utterly implausible outcome, and are actually affronted when that isn't good enough! No, sorry, your expectation just isn't good enough.

A couple of folk on here have found a proper test that has been carried out on these power cables, with the expected results. You have failed to find a single example that suggests - scientifically - that they do work. So, hyperbole it is, until demonstrated otherwise.

Be happy, User, but please don't beee-ssss.