Wise Parking QE Hospital drop off area night time PCN

cesurman

Coupon-mad said:

Send that to the CEO of the NHS Trust and ask whether they support this view, and how exactly is a driver meant not to leave the car unattended if they ARE allowed ten minutes to pick up or drop off a vulnerable patient who needs escorting?

Say the same to your MP and ask him to ask 'WISE' why they are breaching the IPC Code of Practice re the mandatory 5 minute consideration period?

Fruitcake said:

cesurman said:

Wise's new response to Clive Efford, MP:

The assumption made by Mr Demir that picking up is different from dropping off would be a pedantic point which shows that as they were ‘not dropping off’, the parking charge was correctly issued, as parking is for Patient drop-off only. This is not why the parking charge was issued though, but by his admission it could have been.
 

 
Best regards

Arrogant people!

The law is a pedant. The Ts and Cs displayed on the signs ONLY APPLY to someone who was dropping off. It's their wording on their signs, so they should be fully aware of this.

They have admitted that the motorist was not dropping off, therefore they must agree that their Ts and Cs cannot apply under any other circumstances. You cannot agree to a contract that does not apply.

That would be like being penalised because you drove out of a car park that had a sign saying Exit Only and also had a sign saying No Entry with a list of charges if you disobeyed the No Entry sign.
You did not breach the terms stated on the Exit Only sign because there were no other Ts and Cs. You did the exact opposite of what the No Entry sign said.

I told both the MP and the CEO above. Also, I asked the CEO whether they really hired a recently established firm to issue parking charges during a nighttime operation to regulate the drop-off area of the hospital without considering what it requires to pick up a patient who needs help or lost communication with the driver.

cesurman

The Hospital insists on not taking any responsibility. Complaints team response (responding to my initial complaint I believe):

COMPLAINTSTEAM (LEWISHAM AND GREENWICH NHS TRUST) 14:38 (0 minutes ago)

Dear Mr xyz,
I acknowledge receipt of your 01 August 2022 email on behalf of Ben Travis. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.  I can confirm that Wise Parking have responded to the email that you sent to your MP Mr Clive Efford. They have confirmed that if you disagree with their decision not to cancel the PCN you can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service.  The Trust has no control over this process. In the meantime, I hope that your daughter's health continues to improve. Should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Kind regards,

Fruitcake

The IAS is not independent, and only allow 4% of appeals. It is a kangaroo court.

The hospital are responsible for the actions of their agents. As principle, they will be involved in any legal action should their sub-contractor take you to court, so they will need to contact their legal department if that happens.
Note that they may be in breach of the Equality Act 2010 as a result of their actions. They are already in breach of the NHS Government mandated parking principles.

cesurman

cesurman said:

The Hospital insists on not taking any responsibility. Complaints team response (responding to my initial complaint I believe):

COMPLAINTSTEAM (LEWISHAM AND GREENWICH NHS TRUST) 14:38 (0 minutes ago)

Dear Mr xyz,
I acknowledge receipt of your 01 August 2022 email on behalf of Ben Travis. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.  I can confirm that Wise Parking have responded to the email that you sent to your MP Mr Clive Efford. They have confirmed that if you disagree with their decision not to cancel the PCN you can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service.  The Trust has no control over this process. In the meantime, I hope that your daughter's health continues to improve. Should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Kind regards,

My response to the complaint team:

Dear Julie Bates,

Thank you for your email.

The Trust definitely have control over their agency. Think about this, one of your agencies providing faulty equipment that caused your patient to suffer further health problems, could you say it is not my problem, and deal with my agency? No, similarly, WISE parking operates on behalf of the Trust hence the Trust has the right to intervene, -if they care!

Have you really read my complaint? Could you state what you agree and disagree with? Have you understood the circumstances the driver was in, what would like you to tell about that?Have you put yourself in the same situation and thought about what you would do?For example what one should do to collect a patient that they can't get hold of due to weak phone signals and is concerned about the patient and they would exceed the 10-minute waiting time in the drop-off area?

Also, IAS is a kangaroo court and not independent! If an org put the 'independent' word in their legal name, it doesn't mean they are independent. Probably they use that name 'IAS' to undermine that they are independent while the vast majority of the public agree that they are not!

Could you rethink my complaint and take reasonable steps, please?

foden11

Executive Assistant to CEO  Is this a posh word for secretary or some one been paid a fortune to do very little. 

[Deleted User]

foden11 said:

Executive Assistant to CEO  Is this a posh word for secretary or some one been paid a fortune to do very little. 

Almost certainly a role that involves more than a PA/secretary e.g. responding to emails, scheduling meetings, dealing with higher level hospital/corporate policies and documents, organising events and dealing with people at the CEO's level 

Coupon-mad

And fobbing complaints off?

cesurman

I guess no surprise in IAS decisions that dismiss appeals...

What is next?

"It is important that the Appellant understands that the adjudicator is not in a position to give his legal advice. The adjudicator's role is to look at whether the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each particular case. The adjudicator's decision is not legally binding on the Appellant (it is intended to be a guide) and they are free to obtain independent legal advice if they so wish. However, the adjudicator is legally qualified (a barrister or solicitor) and decides the appeal according to their understanding of the law and legal principles.

The terms of this appeal are that I am only allowed to consider the charge being appealed and not the circumstances of other drivers or other parking events. The guidance to this appeal also makes it clear that I am bound by the law of contract and can only consider legal challenges not mistakes or extenuating circumstances. I am satisfied that the Operator's signage, which was on display throughout the site, makes it sufficiently clear that the terms and conditions are in force at all times and that a PCN will be issued to drivers who fail to comply with the terms and conditions, regardless of a driver's reasons for being on site or any mitigating factors. While noting their comments, it is clear from the evidence provided to this appeal that the Appellant did indeed enter and use the site otherwise than in accordance with the displayed terms as alleged by the Operator, having been allowed an adequate consideration period prior to the charge being issued. It is the driver's (rather than a third party's) responsibility to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking are properly complied with.

I am satisfied that the Operator has proven their prima facie case. Whilst having some sympathy with the Appellant's circumstances, once liability has been established, only the Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances. Accordingly this appeal is dismissed."

Jenni_D

Next is you wait to see if the PPC tries a court claim. (A formal Letter Before Claim should arrive first). Debt collector letters can be laughed at and filed.

In the meantime you can always try another Plan A attempt (complaint to the landowner) - but I suspect that'll again fall on deaf ears.

Umkomaas

cesurman said:

I guess no surprise in IAS decisions that dismiss appeals...

What is next?

"It is important that the Appellant understands that the adjudicator is not in a position to give his legal advice. The adjudicator's role is to look at whether the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each particular case. The adjudicator's decision is not legally binding on the Appellant (it is intended to be a guide) and they are free to obtain independent legal advice if they so wish. However, the adjudicator is legally qualified (a barrister or solicitor) and decides the appeal according to their understanding of the law and legal principles.

The terms of this appeal are that I am only allowed to consider the charge being appealed and not the circumstances of other drivers or other parking events. The guidance to this appeal also makes it clear that I am bound by the law of contract and can only consider legal challenges not mistakes or extenuating circumstances. I am satisfied that the Operator's signage, which was on display throughout the site, makes it sufficiently clear that the terms and conditions are in force at all times and that a PCN will be issued to drivers who fail to comply with the terms and conditions, regardless of a driver's reasons for being on site or any mitigating factors. While noting their comments, it is clear from the evidence provided to this appeal that the Appellant did indeed enter and use the site otherwise than in accordance with the displayed terms as alleged by the Operator, having been allowed an adequate consideration period prior to the charge being issued. It is the driver's (rather than a third party's) responsibility to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking are properly complied with.

I am satisfied that the Operator has proven their prima facie case. Whilst having some sympathy with the Appellant's circumstances, once liability has been established, only the Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances. Accordingly this appeal is dismissed."

Unadulterated template from IAS, seen hundreds of times. I'm sure you have a nice warm glow that they have some sympathy with your circumstances!  Usual drivel.