Wise Parking QE Hospital drop off area night time PCN

cesurman

Coupon-mad said:

cesurman said:

Just conscious  of my credit score as planning to apply for a loan soon. At which point could this have an adverse impact on my cedit score ?

Absolutely no danger.  Relax.

It's as Le_Kirk says and you are not going to be taken to court, lose and then refuse to pay!

This is obviously a fly-by-night operation in my personal view, and these terms are wholly unsuitable for a Hospital drop off and pick up, for the reasons we've already said.  And they gave no consideration period which is a breach of the IPC CoP.

Did you complain to the CEO of the NHS Trust about this?  It is appalling that they have given a contract to such a new set up and one wonders why...

IAS is a kangaroo court but worth the laugh.  Also looks more reasonable to try to deal with it properly and the lack of consideration period might be enough to see Wise fold.

I have emailed the board secretary and the CEO ben.travis@nhs.net waiting for a response.

Coupon-mad

You have 21 days to bung in a - probably pointless - 'kangaroo court' farce of an appeal with the IAS (counting from the rejection letter date).  May as well do that, using what we already pointed out about one of the signs NOT creating any contractual terms about picking up, and about no consideration period.

Fruitcake

cesurman said:

Pals responded with a message suggesting to contact the Parliamentary and Health ombudsman service.

 On the other hand, my MP contacted Wise parking and forwarded me their response:

 Dear Clive Efford, The details you have submitted to us are partially correct. There is more than one condition of parking at the Drop Off area at Queen Elizabeth Hospital. The reason the Parking Charge was issued is due to the vehicle being left unattended, where the signage clearly states the driver must remain with the vehicle at all times. The evidence provided by the parking attendant clearly showed the vehicle was left unattended, as does the testimony you have shared, so this would show the parking charge was issued correctly. All our signs (a copy of which is below) and the signage plan had been audited by the IPC as being suitable and correctly positioned, and PALS (the hospitals complaints team) are mentioned as being unhelpful, which I have never seen, but they do understand that Wise Parking need to handle complaints so I would expect they directed the driver to ourselves. Although we do have sympathy with anyone needing to park within a hospital, it is imperative we follow the correct process for all users as we need to be shown to be fair to all. As this parking charge was properly issued, the appeal they submitted to us has been declined. Within the appeal reply, the driver has been advised they can apply to the Independent Appeals Service if they disagree with our decision, which they have not yet done. [Embedded Image] I hope that brings some clarity to the situation and explains the correct actions the driver may take in contacting the Independent Appeals Service as detailed on their appeal response. There would have been plenty of space in any of the paid for public car parks at this time of night, which is where the driver really should have parked and just paid the small associated fee. If I can be of further assistance, please do let me know. Best regards


 WISE attached an image instructing drivers not to leave their cars whe dropping of patients. I requested my MP to elaborate on that in addition to the consideration to be made when picking up patients in extraordinary situations.

None of this addresses the fact that the signs can only form a contract with a motorist who is dropping off. 
For a contract to be formed, three elements must be satisfied.
Offer, consideration, and acceptance.
There are no Ts and Cs, (no offer) for a motorist who is picking up, therefore no consideration to a motorist who is picking up, therefore no contract can be formed with a motorist who is picking up.
It is trite law that if there is no contract, then there can be no breach of contract.

dave77238u38

fisherjim said:

All our signs (a copy of which is below) and the signage plan had been audited by the IPC as being suitable and correctly positioned

I bet they can't supply a copy of said audit, they are just a mouthpiece of the PPC

Don't even bother, I emailed them asking for a copy of this so-called "site" audit, in regards to my own PCN.
They refused.  

dave77238u38

cesurman said:

Coupon-mad said:

cesurman said:

Just conscious  of my credit score as planning to apply for a loan soon. At which point could this have an adverse impact on my cedit score ?

Absolutely no danger.  Relax.

It's as Le_Kirk says and you are not going to be taken to court, lose and then refuse to pay!

This is obviously a fly-by-night operation in my personal view, and these terms are wholly unsuitable for a Hospital drop off and pick up, for the reasons we've already said.  And they gave no consideration period which is a breach of the IPC CoP.

Did you complain to the CEO of the NHS Trust about this?  It is appalling that they have given a contract to such a new set up and one wonders why...

IAS is a kangaroo court but worth the laugh.  Also looks more reasonable to try to deal with it properly and the lack of consideration period might be enough to see Wise fold.

I have emailed the board secretary and the CEO ben.travis@nhs.net waiting for a response.

@cesurman,  I posted a letter last week to Ben Travis complaining about Wise Parking, hopefully with two complaints within a few days of each other will make him take notice!

Le_Kirk

dave77238u38 said:

fisherjim said:

All our signs (a copy of which is below) and the signage plan had been audited by the IPC as being suitable and correctly positioned

I bet they can't supply a copy of said audit, they are just a mouthpiece of the PPC

Don't even bother, I emailed them asking for a copy of this so-called "site" audit, in regards to my own PCN.
They refused.  

Let's see them refuse a judge!  In your defence and/or WS, you "put them to strict proof that an audit was carried out and when and show the proof by providing a copy of said audit report"! 

cesurman

Does it matter whether you appeal to IAS as driver or keeper?

KeithP

cesurman said:

Does it matter whether you appeal to IAS as driver or keeper?

I would play safe and appeal as the keeper.

Why would you want to do anything else?

cesurman

Appealed to IAS with my points, PPC responded with below and the same images they provided on their website as evidence.

The patient drop off area at Queen Elizabeth Hospital is a very bus area, and has specific terms and conditions of use. Vehicles are allowed to stay for a maximum 10 minutes, and the driver must stay with the vehicle at all times. It is clear this vehicle was left unattended so the parking charge was correctly issued.

The Operator has provided the evidence above which he says proves that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the parking charge in question.

You now have TWO options:

1) SUBMIT YOUR RESPONSE - You can respond to the evidence by making any representations that you consider to be relevant as to the lawfulness of the charge any by uploading any extra photographs or other evidence that you may have. After you submit your response, and the operator doesn't provide any more information you will not have the ability to add to or amend your submission. If the operator provides more information or evidence you will then have another chance to respond. You have until 16/08/2022 23:59 to submit your response if this is the route you wish to take.

- OR -

2) REFER THE CASE STRAIGHT TO ARBITRATION - If you think you do not need to add any more information or evidence, for example if you consider that the information provided is not capable of showing that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the parking charge, then you may choose this option. Neither party will have the opportunity of making more representations and the Adjudicator will decide, on the balance of probabilities, whether you are liable for the parking charge.

Fruitcake

Personally I would keep going and rebut, rebut, rebut every time with something like,

The contractual terms that may or may not have been displayed on signage at the site in question regarding dropping off are irrelevant to this case. The driver was picking up, not dropping off, and complied with the contractual requirements displayed on signage with regards to picking up. 
Consequently no contractual breach occurred, therefore the operator had no reason to obtain and process the vehicle keeper's personal data from the DVLA, and therefore the parking charge notice was incorrectly issued.

A complaint will be made to the DVLA about the operator unlawfully obtaining and processing the keeper's personal data in breach of the Data Protection Act 2015, and General Data Protection Regulations 2018.
A similar complaint will be made to the Information Commissioner's Office.