Wise Parking QE Hospital drop off area night time PCN

cesurman

I got a PCN at the drop-off area of Queen Elizabeth Hospital - Woolwich on 4th July, 2022 at 23:04:21 while picking up my child who suffered burns and was treated at A&E. I had to leave the car for a short period of time as I couldn't get hold of my partner as there were no phone signals at the hospital. At the drop-off area, you may be expected to stay in the car but this is a hospital, not a hotel; circumstances may cause one to leave the car for a short period of time. Also, they didn't produce any evidence to suggest my car stayed there for over 10 mins (does this helps with anything?)

Attached is the set of images from the PCN letter and evidence pack:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vGr749DhszByQgcM9
Issue date of PCN: 06/07/2022 (masked by mistake in the images)

My previous complaint to PALS was not successful 3 years ago but will try them again. If they don't help, will appeal to WISE.
I will complain to my MP,  though didn't get a reply last time...

Is there anything else that caught your eye that may put me in a favourable position?
Is there any way to get evidence of my A&E visit to support my case when appealing to WISE?

Coupon-mad

Make an immediate and robust complaint to PALS that picking up a mother and child with burns from A&E involved assisted boarding/alighting. This was within the ten minutes and the lurking person responsible for this predatory photo 'non-ticketing' (uploading of photos for a bounty payment) needs retraining on acceptable consideration periods, and just what assisting a child just treated for burns involves.

The observation period is shown as 'N/A' which is atrocious immediate penalising of genuine people trying to pick up a patient. As there is no phone signal, of course you had to step out of the car briefly, to locate them as they emerged from A&E.

This is not a no-stopping zone and no contract has been agreed, let alone breached in those two minutes that you took to assist with pick up of your distressed child. The PCN must be cancelled.

(Appeal as driver and complain the same way as this is a POFA NTK).

mjm3346

It's a pick-up/drop off area and there was no one in the car - may be good reasons for that but it is effectively parked in a no parking zone

Coupon-mad

mjm3346 said:

It's a pick-up/drop off area and there was no one in the car - may be good reasons for that but it is effectively parked in a no parking zone

No it's not, with zero observation or consideration period.  I'll be using this case to (hopefully) inform the DLUHC and prevent a glaring error in the new Code of Practice.  This error MUST be stopped.

Brie

mjm3346 said:

It's a pick-up/drop off area and there was no one in the car - may be good reasons for that but it is effectively parked in a no parking zone

What would you consider acceptable in this situation? 

If I had to pick up my MiL at a hospital I would need to get out of the car as it takes 2 people to get her in or out of a vehicle.  I would turn off the engine as I would consider the car unsafe otherwise.  I'm assuming the OP did something similar, turned off engine, got out of car, went inside entrance to wave to spouse and child and then returned to car.  

Fruitcake

I would suggest that the Jopson vs Homeguard case is relevant here, where the judge defined the difference between parking and attending to a vicissitude of some small duration such as loading and unloading or changing a wheel.
I would further suggest that alighting in order to locate and collect a child and their parent/guardian, and/or find a spot with a serviceable 'phone signal, and boarding passengers after making contact, all constitute a vicissitude of some small duration.

This was an appeal court case so is persuasive on the lower courts, should it get to that point.

In addition, the signs are confusing and contradictory. One says drop off only, yet the other says drop off and pick up. Neither say anything about not leaving site, or leaving the vehicle unattended.

Umkomaas

Another Johnny Come Lately jumping on the Gravy Train in the past 12 months. No money to be made my Jim Royle!

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13563592

Coupon-mad

Why the heck would a hospital use that new firm and let them instantly penalise people picking up patients at A&E?

Who the heck signed that contract and thinks this is OK? That NHS Trust, hang your heads in shame.

cesurman

Thanks for the contributions.

I've complained to PALS and appealed to Wise.

cesurman

Wise appeal stage concluded with rejection. Waiting for a response from PALS.

Fruitcake

Do you have a close up image of the white sign such that the Ts and Cs can be read, because the one provided by the PPC is unreadable and in my opinion is incapable of forming a contract.