Letter of claim

JerzyB

Hi all. Can I have some advice, please? A parking charge notice was issued on 16/12/2016 for being "stopped in a prohibited area". As the keeper, I have ignored most of the letters I have been sent (other than the original 2 or 3; I didn't name the driver), and then this dropped through the letterbox today. It's coming up to 6 years now, so they're clearly trying to get their pound of flesh before it's statute barred. What's the best way to proceed?

Coupon-mad

Exact same as this one yesterday:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79313559#Comment_79313559

Advice is the same for both of you.

And bookmark this thread (below) and set up email alerts for bookmarked threads in your Profile:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback#latest

Read the posts from this week and you will see why.

We need you not to disappear.

You will not want to miss out on being heard in the Public Consultation. Please don't walk away without knowing what I mean by this and reading/knowing what we need all victims to do this Summer!

JerzyB

Coupon-mad said:

Exact same as this one yesterday:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79313559#Comment_79313559

Advice is the same for both of you.

And bookmark this thread (below) and set up email alerts for bookmarked threads in your Profile:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback#latest

Read the posts from this week and you will see why.

We need you not to disappear.

You will not want to miss out on being heard in the Public Consultation. Please don't walk away without knowing what I mean by this and reading/knowing what we need all victims to do this Summer!

Thanks. I've bookmarked it. 

Coupon-mad

Another one here. All the same:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6370095/dcblegal-ukpc-letter-of-claim-from-5-years-ago#latest

JerzyB

I have DBL on hold until 17th September.

Following advice, I've requested contemporaneous photos of the signage in use at the time of the incident. None of the photos they have sent me are from that time, and can be proved as such from Google Street View. The photos of my car  - taken by the attendant at the time - do NOT show any signs within obvious sight of where the car was parked. DBL have sent me a load of photos that were quite clearly taken long afterwards; I have managed to get a load of dated screenshots off Google Street View that show this clearly. Quite laughably, they have sent me a photo of the exact spot where the car was parked, taken some time between 2016 and now, that shows a sign, however, Google Street View photos from 2016 and 2022 show the sign is missing! The sign was NOT visible in any of the photos they took of my car. Notably, apart from the photos taken of the car, none of the images they have sent me contains EXIF metadata or date/time overlays to show when they were taken.

Furthermore, the incident occurred in late December but all of their photos show the trees in full green foliage, so are again obviously not contemporaneous with the time of the incident.

Also, the location and postcode stated on the PCN are NOT where the car was located. I have got street maps that show this, as well as 20-odd screenshots from the Royal Mail's postcode checker website that shows the postcode on the PCN is for the flats round the corner, NOT on the street where the vehicle was parked.

The PCN makes no note of when the attendant first saw the car, only the time that the PCN was issued. No grace period was allowed for the driver to look for signage. I am aware that grace periods weren't a thing back in 2016 but I'm still going to raise this issue and see what happens; I'm going to talk about disability discrimination with regards to this point.

I asked them to provide contact details of the parking attendant so that they can be summoned to court but they have ignored that completely.

I feel that I have enough evidence to prove that they are wrongly trying to pass off their photos as contemporaneous with the incident, however, I am now in something of a quandary...

Should I raise all the above with DBL in the hope that they will drop the case, or should I keep my cards close to my chest, wait for a court date, and produce my evidence in court? If the latter, how should I respond to them?

Fruitcake

It won't hurt to contact DCBLegal and the PPC now with the above information, and that you will be claiming costs for unreasonable behaviour if they persist. That way you can show a judge (if it gets that far) that you tried to narrow the issues without the need for this to go to court.

What happened when you complained to the landowner and your MP?

JerzyB

Fruitcake said:

What happened when you complained to the landowner and your MP?

I haven't done either of these. 

Coupon-mad

Because it is nearly timed out (December) you must keep replying late, throwing something new into the mix (photos, GSV screenshots, questions about the metadata of their client's images).

Keep replying and asking for something.

On 16th November chuck in the final bomb.  The email that says you are seeking debt advice, as per the other almost-statute-barred cases.

JerzyB

I have advised DCB that because they have failed to provide me with correct and accurate information I will no longer deal with them but only with UKPC directly.

I have requested the same information from UKPC as I did on the reply form, and advised them of the above. I'm awaiting their response... 

Fruitcake

JerzyB said:

Fruitcake said:

What happened when you complained to the landowner and your MP?

I haven't done either of these. 

It is always Plan A, and it is never to late do do it.

Fruitcake

JerzyB said:

I have advised DCB that because they have failed to provide me with correct and accurate information I will no longer deal with them but only with UKPC directly.

I have requested the same information from UKPC as I did on the reply form, and advised them of the above. I'm awaiting their response... 

DCBL will do what UKPC tell them, not what you say. Unless you act now, you can expect a claim form to arrive in the very near future.

I suggest you quote the relevant parts of 3.1 of the Civil Procedure Rules for Debt Claims to both DCBL and UKPC, highlighting which parts they have failed to follow, requiring them to respond within 30 days. Send the email to yourself as well.

Then look at 4, read it very carefully, and respond using the reply forms asking for any information they have not yet supplied.  Do not at this stage deny the debt and ask for the case to be put on hold, but do quote the relevant part of 4.2 beginning with, "In any event ...". Note that proceedings should not start until after 30 days from when the information you have requested has been supplied.
Do ask for the contract with or flowing from the landowner giving the claimant the right to issue PCNs and court claims. Quote 5.2 when you do.

PRE-ACTION PROTOCOL FOR DEBT CLAIMS Redraft spring 2015 (justice.gov.uk)

Note in your requests for information that the photos/information concerning signs that form the contract between driver and claimant  previously supplied does not include photos taken at the time of the alleged event.

Make note of what Annexe 1 says in the information sheet and make sure you quote it in your replies, but without saying you deny the debt and are seeking debt advice.

"If you request more information in the Reply Form, the business must wait at least 30 days after it gives you that information before taking you to court."