John Lewis Partnership Card

WillPS

J63320 said:

I applied to switch over from the old JL card but cancelled when I realised the interest-free period was shorter. Having read about customers applying “from scratch” getting a longer period, I thought about making another application, and went online to check the Ts and Cs. They say that the payment date will be “about xx days from your statement date”.
I went into a JL store to see if I could get a printed copy, but the partner there told me to go to the website. She also said  “you won’t get more than 46 days, that’s what I’ve got” but she is likely to have switched over from the old card. I couldn't get her to understand that having “xx” in the terms and conditions was unacceptable and ought to be corrected.

Your issue is with NewDay, not John Lewis. The person you spoke to in store doesn't work for NewDay.

penny_less

missymouse said:

Anyone had their vouchers yet?

Yes, got a £5 one about 2 weeks ago.

J63320

WillPS said:

J63320 said:

I applied to switch over from the old JL card but cancelled when I realised the interest-free period was shorter. Having read about customers applying “from scratch” getting a longer period, I thought about making another application, and went online to check the Ts and Cs. They say that the payment date will be “about xx days from your statement date”.
I went into a JL store to see if I could get a printed copy, but the partner there told me to go to the website. She also said  “you won’t get more than 46 days, that’s what I’ve got” but she is likely to have switched over from the old card. I couldn't get her to understand that having “xx” in the terms and conditions was unacceptable and ought to be corrected.

Your issue is with NewDay, not John Lewis. The person you spoke to in store doesn't work for NewDay.

The card is branded John Lewis. John Lewis are marketing the card.  John Lewis have contracted with NewDay to provide the card so must have agreed the customer terms and conditions. These terms and conditions are published on the JohnLewis Financial Services website. I was making my enquiries in the John Lewis Financial Services area of the store. I would expect the people in that area to understand the product they are offering to their customers, and to understand that terms and conditions should not be ambiguous.
As an aside: under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if there is any ambiguity in terms and conditions, the interpretation must be the one that favours the consumer. I wonder if this means I could demand 99 days between my statement and payment dates?!

WillPS

J63320 said:

The card is branded John Lewis.

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis are marketing the card. 

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis have contracted with NewDay to provide the card so must have agreed the customer terms and conditions. These terms and conditions are published on the JohnLewis Financial Services website. I was making my enquiries in the John Lewis Financial Services area of the store.

You thought that someone on the shop floor of John Lewis could rearrange a multimillion £ contract between the organisation they work for and a bank? Bit silly.

J63320 said:

I would expect the people in that area to understand the product they are offering to their customers, and to understand that terms and conditions should not be ambiguous.

They aren't offering them though, and that's an important legal and practical difference. There's a reason all the literature has the boilerplate legend:

John Lewis plc is a credit broker and not a lender, introducing the Partnership Credit Card under exclusive arrangements with the lender NewDay Ltd.

Like it or not, if you take out an affinity credit card then you are not dealing with the institution named on the face of the card. That means no "partner" can do anything other than point you to the organisation they are permitted to 'introduce'.

You have a valid point about the T&Cs lacking key details and I suspect you'd get this resolved by directing your enquiry to the correct organisation.

artyboy

WillPS said:

J63320 said:

The card is branded John Lewis.

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis are marketing the card. 

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis have contracted with NewDay to provide the card so must have agreed the customer terms and conditions. These terms and conditions are published on the JohnLewis Financial Services website. I was making my enquiries in the John Lewis Financial Services area of the store.

You thought that someone on the shop floor of John Lewis could rearrange a multimillion £ contract between the organisation they work for and a bank? Bit silly.

J63320 said:

I would expect the people in that area to understand the product they are offering to their customers, and to understand that terms and conditions should not be ambiguous.

They aren't offering them though, and that's an important legal and practical difference. There's a reason all the literature has the boilerplate legend:

John Lewis plc is a credit broker and not a lender, introducing the Partnership Credit Card under exclusive arrangements with the lender NewDay Ltd.

Like it or not, if you take out an affinity credit card then you are not dealing with the institution named on the face of the card. That means no "partner" can do anything other than point you to the organisation they are permitted to 'introduce'.

You have a valid point about the T&Cs lacking key details and I suspect you'd get this resolved by directing your enquiry to the correct organisation.

I'd disagree with the 'irrelevant' comments - yes, those of us in the know, get that there is a lot of legal/operational separation between the shop and the financial services business. But it comes back to the point I made long ago, which is that JL is allowing their name to be associated to what is a bit of a debacle, and so JL has to accept the negative association with their brand.

Slinky

I hadn't twigged the shorter time to pay, other than it seemed quite quick between statement arriving and payment being needed.  

WillPS

artyboy said:

WillPS said:

J63320 said:

The card is branded John Lewis.

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis are marketing the card. 

Irrelevant.

J63320 said:

John Lewis have contracted with NewDay to provide the card so must have agreed the customer terms and conditions. These terms and conditions are published on the JohnLewis Financial Services website. I was making my enquiries in the John Lewis Financial Services area of the store.

You thought that someone on the shop floor of John Lewis could rearrange a multimillion £ contract between the organisation they work for and a bank? Bit silly.

J63320 said:

I would expect the people in that area to understand the product they are offering to their customers, and to understand that terms and conditions should not be ambiguous.

They aren't offering them though, and that's an important legal and practical difference. There's a reason all the literature has the boilerplate legend:

John Lewis plc is a credit broker and not a lender, introducing the Partnership Credit Card under exclusive arrangements with the lender NewDay Ltd.

Like it or not, if you take out an affinity credit card then you are not dealing with the institution named on the face of the card. That means no "partner" can do anything other than point you to the organisation they are permitted to 'introduce'.

You have a valid point about the T&Cs lacking key details and I suspect you'd get this resolved by directing your enquiry to the correct organisation.

I'd disagree with the 'irrelevant' comments - yes, those of us in the know, get that there is a lot of legal/operational separation between the shop and the financial services business. But it comes back to the point I made long ago, which is that JL is allowing their name to be associated to what is a bit of a debacle, and so JL has to accept the negative association with their brand.

It doesn't matter who JL partnered with on this, if it was JLFS/HSBC it'd be the same.

I don't expect Tesco staff would be able to do more than give you a phone number to ring if the matter was regarding a Tesco Bank credit card, even though Tesco Bank is (for the time being) an entirely Tesco owned thing.

Feel free to perceive them as one and the same but they are not, and it's not realistic to expect shop floor staff to act as bank staff.

Moonraker21

I have held a John Lewis Partnership card for nearly 20 years. The card until last year was run financially by HSBC but in their wisdom last year 2022 John Lewis changed to New Day Ltd group of companies. That in itself was not a problem. The problem in my thinking is the way New Day present their customers monthly account statements.

Under HSBC operations a John Lewis Partnership Card customer  received a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding, the MINIMUM PAYMENT DUE & your new balance – if you paid only the Minimum Payment then interest charges would apply to the difference, quite straightforward and understood.

Under New Day’s system, John Lewis Partnership Card customers receive a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding,  the PAYMENT REQUESTED & your new balance. By using the term, Amount Requested I believe implies ‘that’s all we 'want/need’ and will encourage customers to unwittingly increase their outstanding balance with unwanted interest charges – the used wording ‘Amount Requested’ is for the benefit of New Day by increasing their revenue to the detriment of Card customers if they do not pay the total balance amount.

I have checked other credit card companies and found all use the term Minimum Payment and not Payment Requested

It's time New Day changed the statement wording

 

MorningcoffeeIV

Moonraker21 said:

Under New Day’s system, John Lewis Partnership Card customers receive a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding,  the PAYMENT REQUESTED & your new balance. By using the term, Amount Requested I believe implies ‘that’s all we 'want/need’ and will encourage customers to unwittingly increase their outstanding balance with unwanted interest charges – the used wording ‘Amount Requested’ is for the benefit of New Day by increasing their revenue to the detriment of Card customers if they do not pay the total balance amount.

The kind of people who think they would not be charged interest on the amount they don't repay won't be eligible for a John Lewis card.

WillPS

Moonraker21 said:

I have held a John Lewis Partnership card for nearly 20 years. The card until last year was run financially by HSBC but in their wisdom last year 2022 John Lewis changed to New Day Ltd group of companies. That in itself was not a problem. The problem in my thinking is the way New Day present their customers monthly account statements.

Under HSBC operations a John Lewis Partnership Card customer  received a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding, the MINIMUM PAYMENT DUE & your new balance – if you paid only the Minimum Payment then interest charges would apply to the difference, quite straightforward and understood.

Under New Day’s system, John Lewis Partnership Card customers receive a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding,  the PAYMENT REQUESTED & your new balance. By using the term, Amount Requested I believe implies ‘that’s all we 'want/need’ and will encourage customers to unwittingly increase their outstanding balance with unwanted interest charges – the used wording ‘Amount Requested’ is for the benefit of New Day by increasing their revenue to the detriment of Card customers if they do not pay the total balance amount.

I have checked other credit card companies and found all use the term Minimum Payment and not Payment Requested

It's time New Day changed the statement wording

I'm not sure I see the problem. The Minimum Payment Due is all the issuer wants/needs. They are perfectly happy for you to pay that and incur interest on the rest, in fact that's likely what makes the card viable. 'Payment Requested' is just as clear a legend.

MorningcoffeeIV said:

Moonraker21 said:

Under New Day’s system, John Lewis Partnership Card customers receive a monthly account statement showing the amount outstanding,  the PAYMENT REQUESTED & your new balance. By using the term, Amount Requested I believe implies ‘that’s all we 'want/need’ and will encourage customers to unwittingly increase their outstanding balance with unwanted interest charges – the used wording ‘Amount Requested’ is for the benefit of New Day by increasing their revenue to the detriment of Card customers if they do not pay the total balance amount.

The kind of people who think they would not be charged interest on the amount they don't repay won't be eligible for a John Lewis card.

How would that possibly be determined or enforced?