EV Discussion thread

QrizB

I've been looking at the details of the Octopus / BYD deal and it's not quite the game-changer it first seems.

Its strictly V2G; there's no explicit V2H element. By which I mean, your household is charged for all  the electricity you use (which I think must be net metered, so the difference between import and export, see note below) and then get a credit for your EV charging (which again, looks to be net). So I guess you'll be on a supply tariff like IOG Saver (the tariff for folk with an Octopus EV lease) and Octopus will control when your EV exports, or not.

So, put the kettle on at 3pm (when there's no need for grid balancing) and you'll draw 3kW from the grid at daytime rates. Not from your EV battery.

Note re net metering: Octopus are currently only offering the BYD V2G deal to households that don't already export (so no PV or batts), which would complicate net metering. I'm guessing this is why.

JKenH said:

And what happens when the DNO says No! to V2G?

Per Octopuss's T&C for the Power Pack tariff, it's only available if the customer's DNO authorise at least 5kW of export under G99. Which is another disappointment.

See here for details:

https://octopusev.com/power-pack-bundle/charging-terms

Alzire

QrizB said:

I've been looking at the details of the Octopus / BYD deal and it's not quite the game-changer it first seems.

Yes.  It looked fantastic at first glance but the whole battery management element of the offer is purely to benefit Octopus.

When Octopus quote:

"V2G transforms EVs into ‘batteries on wheels’, allowing them to charge when electricity is cheap and send it back to the grid at peak times when electricity is expensive."

It may give the customer the impression that the car they lease is a 'battery on wheels', which was my initial impression (where can I park this extra car to take advantage of this amazing deal??).  But sadly the customer does not benefit from the deal in the way that they may wish.

Also, I believe it excludes those on EV smart tariffs.  I already lease an EV from Octopus and benefit from charging at 6p plus additional benefits of cheap overnight rate for the whole house and occasionally during the day.  The 7500 miles octopus quote in their example cost me ~£130.  

At least this is a new offer is the V2G area.  Maybe a V2H offer will be next.  It is good that the technology appears closer now.

Grumpy_chap

Alzire said:

the whole battery management element of the offer is purely to benefit Octopus.

I may have missed something, but how do these V2G services work in terms of ensuring that the car is not below desired battery charge level when needed?

If I have a car, I want it to be ready to go when I need it as one can never predict when an unexpected and urgent journey will be required. 
When that is not the case, I at least want it to have been my decision that the battery is lower on charge - for example, maybe I get home from work on a Thursday and consciously make a decision not to charge until Sunday (when EDF Sunday Saver is available).  That is my decision and taken in consideration of balance and risk of no charge and urgent need coinciding.
What I do not want is to get home on Thursday, plug in to charge because I hope for good weather on the weekend so will be driving off early evening Friday for a weekend at the beach, but only then find that some external computer algorithm has allowed my car to charge during the day on Friday but then depleted the battery from 4 pm so there is insufficient charge for me to drive off to my weekend retreat just after tea time...


On a wholly unrelated matter, I saw a Dacia Spring in real life earlier in the week and it was the most strikingly unattractive car imaginable.  I had previously thought it looked OK but not stylish from the marketing shots.  It does not - it is truly hideous.  The trouble with such a poor looking device is it will taint people's impression of EVs and they will blame the disastrous styling on the fact it is an EV rather than the design team simply having an off day.

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

Alzire said:

the whole battery management element of the offer is purely to benefit Octopus.

I may have missed something, but how do these V2G services work in terms of ensuring that the car is not below desired battery charge level when needed?

If it's like regular IOG, you tell Octopus what state of charge you want at what time the following day and it makes sure you have that much at that time.

Grumpy_chap said:

On a wholly unrelated matter, I saw a Dacia Spring in real life earlier in the week and it was the most strikingly unattractive car imaginable.

Until now I was thinking it was just another variation on the Sandero / Stepway / Duster body shell, CMF-B but checking Wikipedia it's the smaller CMF-A. Built in Brazil.

I've not seen one in the wild but it's got to be prettier than the original Fiat Multipla - known in my circles as the FIFA Uglybug

Grumpy_chap

QrizB said:

I've not seen one in the wild but it's got to be prettier than the original Fiat Multipla - known in my circles as the FIFA Uglybug

Interesting that you make the comparison to a Fiat.
From the glossy pictures, I had thought it quite similar to the original Fiat Panda 4x4 (even the internal dashboard) which did mean a certain funky charm.
The reality, particularly from the rear, is worse than the Multipla.
At least the Multipla had a load of practicality to make up for the shortcomings.

I also just read that the Spring has only a 1-star NCAP rating.  That is appalling and I cannot understand the acceptance by the automotive industry to tolerate launching cars into the market with poor safety ratings.  I understand not every car will achieve a 5-star rating, but the propensity of EVs to be marketed with very low ratings seems confusing (in my mind) and detrimental to establishing EVs as an alternative and progression from ICE.  It just gives the nay-sayers another reason to criticise.  

Netexporter

Isn't a large part of the NCAP rating dependent on ADAS provision - you know, the ADAS that bings and bongs, everybody moans about and switches off?

Grumpy_chap

Netexporter said:

Isn't a large part of the NCAP rating dependent on ADAS provision 

Yes - that is star number 5.
The stars also cover driver protection, adult passenger protection, child passenger protection, pedestrian protection.
To get only 1 star means only one of those five metrics meets required standard.

NedS

Grumpy_chap said:

Alzire said:

the whole battery management element of the offer is purely to benefit Octopus.

I may have missed something, but how do these V2G services work in terms of ensuring that the car is not below desired battery charge level when needed?

If I have a car, I want it to be ready to go when I need it as one can never predict when an unexpected and urgent journey will be required. 
When that is not the case, I at least want it to have been my decision that the battery is lower on charge - for example, maybe I get home from work on a Thursday and consciously make a decision not to charge until Sunday (when EDF Sunday Saver is available).  That is my decision and taken in consideration of balance and risk of no charge and urgent need coinciding.
What I do not want is to get home on Thursday, plug in to charge because I hope for good weather on the weekend so will be driving off early evening Friday for a weekend at the beach, but only then find that some external computer algorithm has allowed my car to charge during the day on Friday but then depleted the battery from 4 pm so there is insufficient charge for me to drive off to my weekend retreat just after tea time...

That's a really good question, and with a typical real world range of around 200 miles fully charged for many EVs, if they've taken any meaningful amount out of the battery, there will not be enough remaining for longer journeys. I have not read anything to say the user has any control other than Octopus stating they will ensure the car is sufficiently charged, whatever that may be. Could make it difficult to plan ahead for that longer journey away on a weekend, especially if heading off the catch a flight or watch a live event to find there is insufficient charge for the journey.

I think it's good that Octopus are driving (no pun intended) this technology forward, but I don't think this particular offering is going to have very wide appeal.

zeupater

NedS said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Alzire said:

the whole battery management element of the offer is purely to benefit Octopus.

I may have missed something, but how do these V2G services work in terms of ensuring that the car is not below desired battery charge level when needed?

If I have a car, I want it to be ready to go when I need it as one can never predict when an unexpected and urgent journey will be required. 
When that is not the case, I at least want it to have been my decision that the battery is lower on charge - for example, maybe I get home from work on a Thursday and consciously make a decision not to charge until Sunday (when EDF Sunday Saver is available).  That is my decision and taken in consideration of balance and risk of no charge and urgent need coinciding.
What I do not want is to get home on Thursday, plug in to charge because I hope for good weather on the weekend so will be driving off early evening Friday for a weekend at the beach, but only then find that some external computer algorithm has allowed my car to charge during the day on Friday but then depleted the battery from 4 pm so there is insufficient charge for me to drive off to my weekend retreat just after tea time...

That's a really good question, and with a typical real world range of around 200 miles fully charged for many EVs, if they've taken any meaningful amount out of the battery, there will not be enough remaining for longer journeys. I have not read anything to say the user has any control other than Octopus stating they will ensure the car is sufficiently charged, whatever that may be. Could make it difficult to plan ahead for that longer journey away on a weekend, especially if heading off the catch a flight or watch a live event to find there is insufficient charge for the journey.

I think it's good that Octopus are driving (no pun intended) this technology forward, but I don't think this particular offering is going to have very wide appeal.

Hi

If you think about it .... the issue is to use the EV capacity to support the grid at exceptional peak demand times, so likely around a couple of hours in the early evening every so often (probably around 18:00-20:00 in most cases).

Depending on the vehicle's ability to supply on V2G there will be a limit on the AC power each vehicle can supply which could be lower than that at which it could charge, however, considering that most domestic charger installations are based on single phase 7kW you're likely looking at the grid borrowing a maximum of 14kWh at peak which would represent ~25%-30% of a typical 200mile range vehicle's battery capacity as mentioned ... of course, with the vehicle already being connected to the grid to support it, it's already available to have the 'borrowed' electrons replaced once the peak period has passed, so by early morning the majority of people wouldn't even notice that anything had happened ..... 

Whichever the supplier and whatever their system, it would be logical to predict that any reasonable V2G offering will assess the battery charge state prior to automatically calling on supply and that (in addition to the obvious solution of not plugging the car into the charger!) there would be some easy form of manual 'no supply' override such as a button or app control as well as a set of limiting criteria to suit individual consumers.

HTH - Z   

JKenH

Hundreds of electric car charging stations hit in organised crime wave

Criminal gangs are targeting electric car chargers, stripping copper from the cables and leaving drivers unable to refuel.

InstaVolt, one of Britain’s biggest charging networks, said over 700 stations had been targeted in a wave that it has linked to organised crime. Incidents have risen from 140 a year ago.

InstaVolt, which has the UK’s biggest rapid charging network after Tesla’s, has developed a “cable shield” to protect its copper. It is made up of a Kevlar sheath booby-trapped with “smart water” that allows police to identify criminals.

Mr Lane said it had led to a rapid fall in thefts involving criminals attempting to steal cables using circular saws and hacksaws, although some had resorted to using hydraulic presses to acquire the cables.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/04/copper-thieves-target-electric-car-chargers/