EV Discussion thread

JKenH

It’s not often that one can get an indication of the profitability of EV charging network operators but this news suggests things aren’t going so well.

Pod Point could be bought by EDF as sales plummet and EV demand wanes

Electric vehicle charging point maker Pod Point looks set to be sold to EDF after a sharp slowdown in demand hurt sales last year.

The London-listed firm delayed the publication of its annual results and announced the suspension of its shares from listing and trading from 1 May, as it revealed a takeover bid from the French multinational utility group.

Pod Point, one of the UK's biggest charging firms, has lost more than 97 per cent of its value since listing on the London Stock Exchange at 218p per share in November 2021.

Shares fell by around a third in January after Pod Point revealed a slowdown in demand for battery-powered cars had led to 2024 revenues of just £53million – well below the £60million it was expecting.

Pod Point also warned results for 2025 are set to be lower than anticipated as ‘ongoing weakness’ in electric cars sales dents demand for charging points at drivers’ homes.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-14643649/Pod-Point-bought-EDF-sales-plummet-EV-demand-wanes.html

JKenH

EV sales aren’t looking great for April. Here is a comparison of the picture today compared to 4 April. This data is delayed a few days. We might still see a surge in registrations on the last day of the month as we did with Vauxhall last month but if we do then that is only going to suggest that registrations are being manipulated to appear better than they really are. Unfortunately I didn’t take a screenshot of the total YTD registrations on 4 April but looking at SMMT figures for March at around 120k, the current total of 132k is disappointing.

April 4 on left. April 30 on right.

Reed_Richards

JKenH said:

It’s not often that one can get an indication of the profitability of EV charging network operators but this news suggests things aren’t going so well.

Is this surprising, given the cost of using one of these chargers?  It's approximately 10 times the cost of charging at home.  I know they want to make a profit but such a high price differential means I keep my use of external chargers down to the bare minimum, and I can't be alone in doing that.  

QrizB

Reed_Richards said:

JKenH said:

It’s not often that one can get an indication of the profitability of EV charging network operators but this news suggests things aren’t going so well.

Is this surprising, given the cost of using one of these chargers?  It's approximately 10 times the cost of charging at home.  I know they want to make a profit but such a high price differential means I keep my use of external chargers down to the bare minimum, and I can't be alone in doing that.  

Public charging in this UK does seem pricey. I think the cheapest one we've ever used was 35p/kWh (which I thought wasn't too bad, although it was an AC slow charger) but most of the DC rapids are 70p or more.

I was in Spain at the weekend (not in an EV!) and the 50kW rapid next to our hotel was 50 Euro cents, about 44p. There was one a bit further down the street for 33 cents. Those prices seem more reasonable, and better for encouraging on-street charging on urban areas.

There were also a lot of electric pedal cycles and mopeds available to rent.

silverwhistle

France is OK too on price although Italy reverts to prices nearer ours, so living on the South coast it would make a continental tour far more attractive were it not for the fact that the Channel is about the most expensive ferry route in the world.. after the Isle of Wight..

i hope to bimble North some time in June and I'll definitely take my granny charger for when I pop in to friends!

JKenH

EV registrations certainly picked up again in the last few days of the month with more than 10,000 additional registrations in the last 4 days of which two thirds were in the last two days. Tesla was the only one of the top manufacturers not to significantly increase their figures adding only 60 units in the last two days whereas Vauxhall after a very lack lustre start to the month increased their YTD sales by 11% in just 2 days and Peugeot YTD registrations similarly surged by over 11% in 2 days. VW took a whole 4 days to increase YTD sales by 11%. I don’t have exact figures for total EV sales but it appears that across the market around half of the months EV registrations occurred in the last 4 days. So a fantastic performance by all those new car salesmen particularly at PSA who put Tesla to shame. 

Below are the cumulative YTD registration figures for Friday(left) and today (right) - note these figures are delayed by a few days. 

Exiled_Tyke

silverwhistle said:

France is OK too on price although Italy reverts to prices nearer ours, so living on the South coast it would make a continental tour far more attractive were it not for the fact that the Channel is about the most expensive ferry route in the world.. after the Isle of Wight..

i hope to bimble North some time in June and I'll definitely take my granny charger for when I pop in to friends!

just charged at Lidl in Coulommiers for the bargain price or 36 cents/kWh.  And at a rate of 88kW  !     Meanwhile every time Gridserve send me a survey, I tell them I don't use them unless it's an emergency 'cos I won't pay 85p/kWh (even if they do offer free charging on Christmas Day - like I can use that!!!) 

Hoenir

Reed_Richards said:

JKenH said:

It’s not often that one can get an indication of the profitability of EV charging network operators but this news suggests things aren’t going so well.

Is this surprising, given the cost of using one of these chargers?  It's approximately 10 times the cost of charging at home.  I know they want to make a profit but such a high price differential means I keep my use of external chargers down to the bare minimum, and I can't be alone in doing that.  

To install ten ultra fast chargers at a Motorway service station might cost the best part of a £100k upfront. All financed with borrowed money. The services owners will no doubt be charging rent as well. Little chance of it being profitable for some considerable time. Once all operational the costs of the business are added on top as well. No great surprise the early stage investors are struggling.  Investors will want a return on their money. Certainly won't be willing to commit further money for more installations. 

No different to mobile phone coverage. Years have passed and there's still areas where it's hopeless. The operators aren't in business to provide a public service. 

Hoenir

JKenH said:

So a fantastic performance by all those new car salesmen particularly at PSA who put Tesla to shame. 

Musk is to Tesla. As Gerald Ratner was to the Ratner's jewelry chain.

Once a brand is damaged. Hard to ever fully recover. No shortage of alternatives in the market. 

michaels

Hoenir said:

Reed_Richards said:

JKenH said:

It’s not often that one can get an indication of the profitability of EV charging network operators but this news suggests things aren’t going so well.

Is this surprising, given the cost of using one of these chargers?  It's approximately 10 times the cost of charging at home.  I know they want to make a profit but such a high price differential means I keep my use of external chargers down to the bare minimum, and I can't be alone in doing that.  

To install ten ultra fast chargers at a Motorway service station might cost the best part of a £100k upfront. All financed with borrowed money. The services owners will no doubt be charging rent as well. Little chance of it being profitable for some considerable time. Once all operational the costs of the business are added on top as well. No great surprise the early stage investors are struggling.  Investors will want a return on their money. Certainly won't be willing to commit further money for more installations. 

No different to mobile phone coverage. Years have passed and there's still areas where it's hopeless. The operators aren't in business to provide a public service. 

Petrol stations are also expensive to install and have staff running costs that EV chargers do not.

However I suspect the economics are skewed by the 'revenue after costs per minute' factor.  If you can make £3 per customer per 3 min fill up at a petrol pump (say 5p per litre for 60l) then you need to make £30 per customer per 30 min charge session.  Add on 20p per kwh fuel cost and that 50kwh charge needs to cost £40 or 80p per kwh to be equally profitable.