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  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,875 Forumite
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    A bit of Tesla news from the U.S. It does seem that Tesla has a problem with cannibalising its own sales. Over the last couple of years we saw Model Y steal sales from the Model 3 and now following the Highland refresh of the Model 3 it is taking sales from the Model Y. Production of the Model 3 can’t keep up with demand while the Model Y is now oversupplied. Something similar might be happening in the UK as Model 3 and Model Y sales are currently running neck and neck whereas last year Model Y sales were almost 3 times those of the Model 3. Perhaps many Tesla buyers just want the latest model, irrespective of whether it is a saloon or SUV, and when the new smaller Tesla arrives on the scene (in 2025?) we will, no doubt, see it take sales from the 3 and Y. 


    Tesla Model 3 Long Range Gets Third Price Increase In February


    Tesla-focused analytic Troy Teslike (@TroyTeslike / X) wrote that the micro price adjustments might be a way to discourage people from ordering a Model 3. Potentially, it can't be produced in high enough numbers. By the way, the optional white interior for the Model 3 is delayed and its price increased to $1,500.

    The Model Y recently received a $1,000 price cut. Its estimated delivery time (new orders) is February-March, indicating that supply exceeds demand.

    It will be very interesting to see how this situation will develop in 2024, but it seems that the beginning of the year is challenging.



    https://insideevs.com/news/709849/tesla-model3-third-price-increase-february2024/
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,091 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    Several OEMs had made the decision to drop their smaller (less profitable) models as the cost of Euro 7 compliance would have rendered them uneconomic. 
    That seems like a highly unintended consequence - impose strict environmental requirements that mean manufacturers then default to a larger and heavier model range which the law of physics dictate will require more energy to move.

    JKenH said:
    BYD’s entry-level new Seagull supermimi comes in at just £8,000. Although not at the top end of the power spectrum, Seagull's top speed of up to 60 mph and 100 miles if battery range could make them ideal for city centres.

    IMO, even a car targeted at the city user should be capable of safely keeping up with motorway speeds.  It is necessary to drive keeping up with the flow of the traffic.
    Lorries are limited to 56 so 60 is ok for motorway but would need to be limited rather than struggling to get there with a tail wind and one skinny driver only
    I think....
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    michaels said:
    IMO, even a car targeted at the city user should be capable of safely keeping up with motorway speeds.  It is necessary to drive keeping up with the flow of the traffic.
    Lorries are limited to 56 so 60 is ok for motorway but would need to be limited rather than struggling to get there with a tail wind and one skinny driver only
    Agreed.
    I ride a 60mph motorcycle and even on fast A roads, there's always an HGV you can follow.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 15,044 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    To add range as fast as a petrol car like my wife’s Picanto - 320 miles in 2 minutes 
    JKenH said:
    a fill up of my motorhome with 75 litres of diesel took just over 4 minutes but part of that was my wife queuing to pay. 

    Ken's experiences with and ICE above.
    Examples with an EV below:
    It's nearer 10 seconds for me. 

    Plugging in: get out car, open charging port cover, pick up charger, plug in charger, reach inside car and turn charging off (this last step is only so that Octopus IO will then schedule the charge, rather than the charge starting immediately). Lock the car and walk away.

    Unplugging: Unlock car, pull out charging cable, close charging port cover, place charging cable down, get in car.

    It would obviously be more work for those with untethered chargers.

    I would say on this, if you delete the time that a person would take to walk past the car... as you have to anyway, to walk to house door mine takes 5-10 seconds.
    Reverse car into drive, get out and slap charging port, grab cable as port opens and shove cable in.
    Walk away.

    If its the wifes leaf it's more like 30 seconds as you need to drag the lead to the front of the car for charging port and then walk back to the house

    5-10 seconds.
    20 seconds plug in and out
    30 seconds.

    It seems a number of our thread contributors are all set for the Olympic sport version of filling a car with energy.

    I actually timed some fills recently.

    Firstly, on Sunday, I was at Tesco and filled my wife's Fiesta.  This took 4 minutes, including paying at the kiosk.  Quite similar to Ken's time for the campervan and, possibly, comparable to the Picanto which I understand he used pay-at-pump to get the 2 minutes duration.

    Yesterday, I arrived home from work so pulled onto the drive and put the TM3 onto charge as part of the walking into the house activity.  Walked from the car to the wall point, uncoiled the cable, stretched out, plugged in.  Two minutes.
    This morning, I had to unplug, so walk to the car, open car, release charge port, walk to back of car, unplug cable, coil cable back onto wall point, lock car.  Three minutes.
    Total time for both plug and unplug events five minutes.

    (My Tesla App phone key has not been working for a while, I would have saved a bit of time on the unplug if the phone key worked as then I would not have had to open the car, unlock the connected inside the car and lock the car afterwards.  That is, though, academic, as the phone key has been kaput for a few weeks now and nothing seems to get it to reconnect.)

    Anyway my times were 4 minutes (ICE) versus 5 minutes (EV).  Certainly nowhere near the "few seconds" that others report for their EV fill events.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,091 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    To add range as fast as a petrol car like my wife’s Picanto - 320 miles in 2 minutes 
    JKenH said:
    a fill up of my motorhome with 75 litres of diesel took just over 4 minutes but part of that was my wife queuing to pay. 

    Ken's experiences with and ICE above.
    Examples with an EV below:
    It's nearer 10 seconds for me. 

    Plugging in: get out car, open charging port cover, pick up charger, plug in charger, reach inside car and turn charging off (this last step is only so that Octopus IO will then schedule the charge, rather than the charge starting immediately). Lock the car and walk away.

    Unplugging: Unlock car, pull out charging cable, close charging port cover, place charging cable down, get in car.

    It would obviously be more work for those with untethered chargers.

    I would say on this, if you delete the time that a person would take to walk past the car... as you have to anyway, to walk to house door mine takes 5-10 seconds.
    Reverse car into drive, get out and slap charging port, grab cable as port opens and shove cable in.
    Walk away.

    If its the wifes leaf it's more like 30 seconds as you need to drag the lead to the front of the car for charging port and then walk back to the house

    5-10 seconds.
    20 seconds plug in and out
    30 seconds.

    It seems a number of our thread contributors are all set for the Olympic sport version of filling a car with energy.

    I actually timed some fills recently.

    Firstly, on Sunday, I was at Tesco and filled my wife's Fiesta.  This took 4 minutes, including paying at the kiosk.  Quite similar to Ken's time for the campervan and, possibly, comparable to the Picanto which I understand he used pay-at-pump to get the 2 minutes duration.

    Yesterday, I arrived home from work so pulled onto the drive and put the TM3 onto charge as part of the walking into the house activity.  Walked from the car to the wall point, uncoiled the cable, stretched out, plugged in.  Two minutes.
    This morning, I had to unplug, so walk to the car, open car, release charge port, walk to back of car, unplug cable, coil cable back onto wall point, lock car.  Three minutes.
    Total time for both plug and unplug events five minutes.

    (My Tesla App phone key has not been working for a while, I would have saved a bit of time on the unplug if the phone key worked as then I would not have had to open the car, unlock the connected inside the car and lock the car afterwards.  That is, though, academic, as the phone key has been kaput for a few weeks now and nothing seems to get it to reconnect.)

    Anyway my times were 4 minutes (ICE) versus 5 minutes (EV).  Certainly nowhere near the "few seconds" that others report for their EV fill events.
    May have to do a vid, arrive home, stop car, push charger port release flap while getting out of car - possibly adds one second but I suspect not measurable.  Walk past front of car on the way to front door bend down, pick up charger with one hand while other hand lifts charge flap and then place charger in socket - just timed at 3 seconds.

    Returning to car push charger unlock on keyfob as walking from front door - no additonal time, pull out charger and drop on ground and slam close charger flap while waking past car to drivers side - even quicker than plugging in.

    Now I admit that I do benefit because I have to walk past the front of the car to get from the drivers door to the front door, if our front door was on the drivers side then this would obviously mean going about 2 steps out of my way both there and back so might add 3 or 4 seconds to both operations....
    I think....
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 47,114 Ambassador
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    I’ve recently got a quooker tap. Relevance? Previously I would go outside and plug the car in while I was waiting for the kettle to boil, now I have instant hot water, I have to spend time sorting the car! 

    Maybe, on a parallel board, people are comparing how much time they’ve saved by having an instant hot water tap.  ;)
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on The Coronavirus Boards as well as the housing, mortgages and student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 953 Forumite
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    I can see that saving a few seconds each day is important as it allows more time to read and comment on this forum.
    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,091 Forumite
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    Eon have new lower rate son their overnight 'EV' tariff, now 7 hours at 8p.  This would work great with our leaf 62, V2H (max 5kw charge, 6kw discharge) and planned heat pump - getting to the point where we might ditch gas altogether - if we achieve an SCOP of 3 then we are looking at about 3p per kwh for heat and 8.5p for electric.
    I think....
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,875 Forumite
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    It seems like some fleets are a bit dissatisfied about how Tesla operates but high mileage company car drivers want to stay with Tesla because of the charging network. There are a few more interesting points, particularly about repairs and Tesla’s inflexible de-fleeting policy. Tesla just want to do things their way. 

    Tesla vows to listen to fleet feedback after criticism


    Another fleet, with hundreds of Tesla company cars, told Fleet News “it just feels like they don’t care about fleet”.

    “Tesla is a retail brand only and their customer is the driver,” they added. “The fleet account managers will tell you one thing, but it feels as though the wider Tesla machine is not interested in changing the way it works to help fleets.

    “We have fed back our issues and for whatever reason it’s not getting through when it’s passed higher up.”

    The same fleet said it has experienced pushback about the desire to move away from Tesla due to the popularity and reliability of its Supercharger network with higher mileage company car drivers.

    However, the fleet manager said: “It’s getting to the point now where we’re so frustrated as a fleet department and Tesla is creating so much noise as a percentage of the brands we work with that for us as an organisation that we can’t continue.”



    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,875 Forumite
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    michaels said:
    JKenH said:
    To add range as fast as a petrol car like my wife’s Picanto - 320 miles in 2 minutes 
    JKenH said:
    a fill up of my motorhome with 75 litres of diesel took just over 4 minutes but part of that was my wife queuing to pay. 

    Ken's experiences with and ICE above.
    Examples with an EV below:
    It's nearer 10 seconds for me. 

    Plugging in: get out car, open charging port cover, pick up charger, plug in charger, reach inside car and turn charging off (this last step is only so that Octopus IO will then schedule the charge, rather than the charge starting immediately). Lock the car and walk away.

    Unplugging: Unlock car, pull out charging cable, close charging port cover, place charging cable down, get in car.

    It would obviously be more work for those with untethered chargers.

    I would say on this, if you delete the time that a person would take to walk past the car... as you have to anyway, to walk to house door mine takes 5-10 seconds.
    Reverse car into drive, get out and slap charging port, grab cable as port opens and shove cable in.
    Walk away.

    If its the wifes leaf it's more like 30 seconds as you need to drag the lead to the front of the car for charging port and then walk back to the house

    5-10 seconds.
    20 seconds plug in and out
    30 seconds.

    It seems a number of our thread contributors are all set for the Olympic sport version of filling a car with energy.

    I actually timed some fills recently.

    Firstly, on Sunday, I was at Tesco and filled my wife's Fiesta.  This took 4 minutes, including paying at the kiosk.  Quite similar to Ken's time for the campervan and, possibly, comparable to the Picanto which I understand he used pay-at-pump to get the 2 minutes duration.

    Yesterday, I arrived home from work so pulled onto the drive and put the TM3 onto charge as part of the walking into the house activity.  Walked from the car to the wall point, uncoiled the cable, stretched out, plugged in.  Two minutes.
    This morning, I had to unplug, so walk to the car, open car, release charge port, walk to back of car, unplug cable, coil cable back onto wall point, lock car.  Three minutes.
    Total time for both plug and unplug events five minutes.

    (My Tesla App phone key has not been working for a while, I would have saved a bit of time on the unplug if the phone key worked as then I would not have had to open the car, unlock the connected inside the car and lock the car afterwards.  That is, though, academic, as the phone key has been kaput for a few weeks now and nothing seems to get it to reconnect.)

    Anyway my times were 4 minutes (ICE) versus 5 minutes (EV).  Certainly nowhere near the "few seconds" that others report for their EV fill events.
    May have to do a vid, arrive home, stop car, push charger port release flap while getting out of car - possibly adds one second but I suspect not measurable.  Walk past front of car on the way to front door bend down, pick up charger with one hand while other hand lifts charge flap and then place charger in socket - just timed at 3 seconds.

    Returning to car push charger unlock on keyfob as walking from front door - no additonal time, pull out charger and drop on ground and slam close charger flap while waking past car to drivers side - even quicker than plugging in.

    Now I admit that I do benefit because I have to walk past the front of the car to get from the drivers door to the front door, if our front door was on the drivers side then this would obviously mean going about 2 steps out of my way both there and back so might add 3 or 4 seconds to both operations....
    The big difference between your plug in/unplug procedure and @Grumpy_chap ‘s procedure and time taken is that he winds the cable up and you drop yours on the ground. I would often do that as my charger was in my garage where I parked (and the lead would land on carpet) but is it a good idea to just drop the charging cable on the ground outside, as many do, it seems? In cold weather plastic can be brittle and prone to cracking and over the long term isn’t water more likely to get onto the pins and corrode them.

    I’m not disputing the time it takes  to plug in - for you it is obviously a very quick procedure - but invariably when I get in or out  my car I have something else in my hands, be it a coat, phone, shopping bags or, when I was working, a briefcase and suit jacket, which I would probably take into the house first then sort out the plugging in. Presumably you leave the on board timer set the same everyday for cheap rate tariffs but I found when I was on Octopus Go I would always be adjusting the timer so the battery charged to around 80% as there is no facility in the 40kWh Leaf to set an 80% limit. Perhaps your V2G charger handles all that automatically.

    My earlier posts about only taking two minutes to fill up the Picanto, and later the Golf, were not intended to suggest filling a car with petrol was quicker than charging at home but simply to counter the exaggeration over fuelling times that is frequently made (for example, Richard Symons in his YouTube video said that it takes “at least ten minutes” to fuel an ICE car.  I doubt many EV owners had actually ever timed a petrol car fill up before quoting the 10 minute figure but it is often used in defence of how long it takes to charge an EV at a rapid. So I timed filling up and now @Grumpy_chap has. 

    FWIW I never gave it a thought and certainly never timed filling a petrol or diesel car until Richard Symons made his ridiculous claim. I never had a problem with the time taken to plug in and set my charge timer on my Leaf either. Nor, for that matter, did I have a problem with how long it took to charge my Leaf at a rapid charger - I was usually just so relieved that I had found a working charger. It was the hassle of having to stop with the attendant planning and uncertainty that I found frustrating. The contrast, with my recent experience with my petrol car certainly brought home to me how relatively more convenient an ICE  car can sometimes be for some people. I filled my Golf up at Asda on Saturday 17th February and drove 8 miles home. I didn’t use it again until Saturday 24th when I drove 140 miles (round trip) to and from a track day at Donington. It was a lateish finish and although I knew I was going to a funeral in Wales on Tuesday I just wanted to get home for some food so didn’t stop to top the tank up. We set off for Wales using Google maps which showed we had a 45 minute margin on time but on the M62 near Leeds the matrix signs flashed up a 45 minute delay. We diverted onto the M1 to take the A628 Woodhead Pass and got stuck in traffic in Penistone. We just made it to the funeral in time and then drove to the reception before driving home again - a total of 330 miles. Again, keen to get home, I dove as fast as legally allowed and arrived with 95 miles left (no stops required).Total distance driven 478 miles since refuelling. (On the way to the funeral I saw the “take a break” light come on after 3hours 20 minutes of driving - first time I’ve seen this in the Golf

    While at the funeral I was talking to someone from the other side of the family who recounted his experience with a Tesla Model Y Performance which he kept just 3 months before going back to an ICE BMW X5. He loved the car but the range was nowhere near what was promised (and that was in the summer) and the charging times were far longer than Tesla advertised particularly when sharing a charger. He was on the road all week staying in hotels and rarely got the chance to charge overnight as with late finishes the chargers were nearly always taken. He said he was late for too many meetings so went back to the X5 despite it costing him more than £500 a month extra in BIK. That’s the first person I have met who, like me, has gone back to ICE.

    Horses for courses. 

    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
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