EV Discussion thread

Spies

Public charging is a **** shoot in terms of what you may and it's really starting to irk me.

Example, I found chargepoint is a fair bit less than other providers when searched on OVO (Bonnet), so I checked chargpoints app and its a good 10% more!

Why is the exact same charger different prices depending on the app you use!

JKenH

MeteredOut said:

I'm not sure you can correlate EV buyers with solar panel owners, since (even in these days of working from home) people are typically out during the day (when the sun shines). Even if at home, it still takes a decent sized solar array to fill a, eg, 75kWh car battery, even in summer.

If anything, i think it's more likely to correlate to those that have batteries, or those that can charge at home and can avail themselves to TOU tariffs.

You probably can’t correlate solar with EV ownership now as it is more cost effective to charge on a TOU tariff and export your solar - but that wasn’t the case 4 years ago when I bought my first EV. Then I had a lot of solar PV generation that I was “wasting”. I was on deemed export and no TOU. EV batteries were smaller then (Tesla excepted) and in summer you could keep your car topped up. I often had more than I could put in the car battery if I didn’t want to go over 80%. Daily PVGIS average from April to August varied from 23 to 28 kWh. One year I had 13 days and 10days in September generating over 20kWh. It was frustrating not to get any benefit from this so a bit of man maths was applied to justify getting an EV. 

If you have batteries I can understand it could make sense to get an EV to get access to a TOU tariff like IOG so, yes, that may be a driver now. But how many people have batteries installed and facilities for off road parking? Some, but enough to make a significant difference?

Netexporter

Why is the exact same charger different prices depending on the app you use!

Presumably for similar reasons that stuff is cheaper in Tesco with a Clubcard.

You get discounts on some networks with an Electroverse card.

Spies

Netexporter said:

Why is the exact same charger different prices depending on the app you use!

Presumably for similar reasons that stuff is cheaper in Tesco with a Clubcard.

You get discounts on some networks with an Electroverse card.

Also more expensive to use electroverse with the likes of mer than using their app directly. 

See my point, it's all over the place 

JKenH

Interesting to see CleanTechnica’s regular correspondent, Steve Hanley, talking about a subtle shift (temporary?) from BEVs towards hybrids (I think he means PHEVs). Judging from the comments, the article isn’t going down too well but should we recognise it and discuss it or just bury our heads and say it isn’t happening, it can’t be happening?

Tesla Sales In California Down 10% In 4th Quarter

The word on everyone’s lips today is “hybrid.” Sales of hybrid vehicles are now 13.3 percent of new car sales in California, up for 8.7 percent in 2022. The market share of battery electric vehicles in the state fell to 21.1 percent in the fourth quarter from 22.3% in the prior three month period. Suddenly, people like Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors, are talking about building more hybrid vehicles that have tried and true gasoline engines onboard to power a car when the battery gets depleted.

One could construct an argument that the EV revolution has moved too far, too fast, and a period of retrenchment is now upon us, one in which hybrids are asked to prepare the way for the second phase of the EV revolution sometime around 2030, when the charging infrastructure is fully developed to the point where it can support millions of electric cars charging every day.

Of course the EV revolution is going to continue. But there are warning lights flashing for the transition to electric cars. Just because it needs to happen to tame the worst effects of global overheating doesn’t guarantee it will happen — at least not on the time schedule many of us assumed it would. We ignore such warning signs at our peril.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/05/tesla-sales-in-california-down-10-percent-in-fourth-quarter/

and in China

Plugin vehicles in China once again ended the year with a record month, growing by 46% year over year (YoY) in the last month of the year to a record 980,000 units. Interestingly, full electric vehicles (BEVs) grew at a slower pace, growing just 31% to 618,000 units. They were responsible for 63% of the plugin market in December, below the 66% average of 2023, which itself is some 8% below the 2022 final result (74%).

This is explained by the fact that range-extended vehicles have become trendy in China, and with most of them packing 40 kWh-ish battery packs and fast charging capabilities, one can say that the Chevrolet Volt formula has found success in China and is at the forefront of the electrification process in this market.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/25-of-new-car-sales-in-china-were-100-electric-in-2023/

MikeJXE

JKenH said:

Interesting to see CleanTechnica’s regular correspondent, Steve Hanley, talking about a subtle shift (temporary?) from BEVs towards hybrids (I think he means PHEVs). Judging from the comments, the article isn’t going down too well but should we recognise it and discuss it or just bury our heads and say it isn’t happening, it can’t be happening?

Tesla Sales In California Down 10% In 4th Quarter

The word on everyone’s lips today is “hybrid.” Sales of hybrid vehicles are now 13.3 percent of new car sales in California, up for 8.7 percent in 2022. The market share of battery electric vehicles in the state fell to 21.1 percent in the fourth quarter from 22.3% in the prior three month period. Suddenly, people like Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors, are talking about building more hybrid vehicles that have tried and true gasoline engines onboard to power a car when the battery gets depleted.

One could construct an argument that the EV revolution has moved too far, too fast, and a period of retrenchment is now upon us, one in which hybrids are asked to prepare the way for the second phase of the EV revolution sometime around 2030, when the charging infrastructure is fully developed to the point where it can support millions of electric cars charging every day.

Of course the EV revolution is going to continue. But there are warning lights flashing for the transition to electric cars. Just because it needs to happen to tame the worst effects of global overheating doesn’t guarantee it will happen — at least not on the time schedule many of us assumed it would. We ignore such warning signs at our peril.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/05/tesla-sales-in-california-down-10-percent-in-fourth-quarter/

and in China

Plugin vehicles in China once again ended the year with a record month, growing by 46% year over year (YoY) in the last month of the year to a record 980,000 units. Interestingly, full electric vehicles (BEVs) grew at a slower pace, growing just 31% to 618,000 units. They were responsible for 63% of the plugin market in December, below the 66% average of 2023, which itself is some 8% below the 2022 final result (74%).

This is explained by the fact that range-extended vehicles have become trendy in China, and with most of them packing 40 kWh-ish battery packs and fast charging capabilities, one can say that the Chevrolet Volt formula has found success in China and is at the forefront of the electrification process in this market.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/25-of-new-car-sales-in-china-were-100-electric-in-2023/

It's been quite obvious to me there are limits to an EV

I want to go where I want to go without charging before hand or on the way, my car will take me 700 miles without stopping if I need to 

 I fill up about every 6 weeks and between times my brain will always know what's roughly in the tank without looking. 

 The BEV has only so many customers, predominantly those who can charge at home and don't do many miles, or those who can charge at home and afford the high charges of charging en-rout 

 As far as it isn't happening or it can't be happening it depends who you are talking to, On here it will be ignored, to me yeah I believe it. 

michaels

Driving 700 miles without stopping would be illegal for a professional driver for obvious reasons

For sure EVs are more suitable to some use cases than others but perhaps just like wearing seatbelts some may have to accept that the social good could triumph of their individual freedoms?

MeteredOut

MikeJXE said:

JKenH said:

Interesting to see CleanTechnica’s regular correspondent, Steve Hanley, talking about a subtle shift (temporary?) from BEVs towards hybrids (I think he means PHEVs). Judging from the comments, the article isn’t going down too well but should we recognise it and discuss it or just bury our heads and say it isn’t happening, it can’t be happening?

Tesla Sales In California Down 10% In 4th Quarter

The word on everyone’s lips today is “hybrid.” Sales of hybrid vehicles are now 13.3 percent of new car sales in California, up for 8.7 percent in 2022. The market share of battery electric vehicles in the state fell to 21.1 percent in the fourth quarter from 22.3% in the prior three month period. Suddenly, people like Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors, are talking about building more hybrid vehicles that have tried and true gasoline engines onboard to power a car when the battery gets depleted.

One could construct an argument that the EV revolution has moved too far, too fast, and a period of retrenchment is now upon us, one in which hybrids are asked to prepare the way for the second phase of the EV revolution sometime around 2030, when the charging infrastructure is fully developed to the point where it can support millions of electric cars charging every day.

Of course the EV revolution is going to continue. But there are warning lights flashing for the transition to electric cars. Just because it needs to happen to tame the worst effects of global overheating doesn’t guarantee it will happen — at least not on the time schedule many of us assumed it would. We ignore such warning signs at our peril.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/05/tesla-sales-in-california-down-10-percent-in-fourth-quarter/

and in China

Plugin vehicles in China once again ended the year with a record month, growing by 46% year over year (YoY) in the last month of the year to a record 980,000 units. Interestingly, full electric vehicles (BEVs) grew at a slower pace, growing just 31% to 618,000 units. They were responsible for 63% of the plugin market in December, below the 66% average of 2023, which itself is some 8% below the 2022 final result (74%).

This is explained by the fact that range-extended vehicles have become trendy in China, and with most of them packing 40 kWh-ish battery packs and fast charging capabilities, one can say that the Chevrolet Volt formula has found success in China and is at the forefront of the electrification process in this market.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/25-of-new-car-sales-in-china-were-100-electric-in-2023/

It's been quite obvious to me there are limits to an EV

I want to go where I want to go without charging before hand or on the way, my car will take me 700 miles without stopping if I need to 

 I fill up about every 6 weeks and between times my brain will always know what's roughly in the tank without looking. 

 The BEV has only so many customers, predominantly those who can charge at home and don't do many miles, or those who can charge at home and afford the high charges of charging en-rout 

 As far as it isn't happening or it can't be happening it depends who you are talking to, On here it will be ignored, to me yeah I believe it. 

It should be patently obvious to anyone with any basic cognitive facility that there are limitations to EVs, but also that there are major benefits for many owners. I really can't comprehend why it polarises opinions so much (other than the typical keyboard warriors who just like to stir things/make some noise).

I largely agree with the article posted above about PHEV; if a pure EV did not work for us (eg, if we did a significant number of long journeys), then we'd have bought a PHEV.

norsefox

MeteredOut said:

MikeJXE said:

JKenH said:

Interesting to see CleanTechnica’s regular correspondent, Steve Hanley, talking about a subtle shift (temporary?) from BEVs towards hybrids (I think he means PHEVs). Judging from the comments, the article isn’t going down too well but should we recognise it and discuss it or just bury our heads and say it isn’t happening, it can’t be happening?

Tesla Sales In California Down 10% In 4th Quarter

The word on everyone’s lips today is “hybrid.” Sales of hybrid vehicles are now 13.3 percent of new car sales in California, up for 8.7 percent in 2022. The market share of battery electric vehicles in the state fell to 21.1 percent in the fourth quarter from 22.3% in the prior three month period. Suddenly, people like Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors, are talking about building more hybrid vehicles that have tried and true gasoline engines onboard to power a car when the battery gets depleted.

One could construct an argument that the EV revolution has moved too far, too fast, and a period of retrenchment is now upon us, one in which hybrids are asked to prepare the way for the second phase of the EV revolution sometime around 2030, when the charging infrastructure is fully developed to the point where it can support millions of electric cars charging every day.

Of course the EV revolution is going to continue. But there are warning lights flashing for the transition to electric cars. Just because it needs to happen to tame the worst effects of global overheating doesn’t guarantee it will happen — at least not on the time schedule many of us assumed it would. We ignore such warning signs at our peril.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/05/tesla-sales-in-california-down-10-percent-in-fourth-quarter/

and in China

Plugin vehicles in China once again ended the year with a record month, growing by 46% year over year (YoY) in the last month of the year to a record 980,000 units. Interestingly, full electric vehicles (BEVs) grew at a slower pace, growing just 31% to 618,000 units. They were responsible for 63% of the plugin market in December, below the 66% average of 2023, which itself is some 8% below the 2022 final result (74%).

This is explained by the fact that range-extended vehicles have become trendy in China, and with most of them packing 40 kWh-ish battery packs and fast charging capabilities, one can say that the Chevrolet Volt formula has found success in China and is at the forefront of the electrification process in this market.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/25-of-new-car-sales-in-china-were-100-electric-in-2023/

It's been quite obvious to me there are limits to an EV

I want to go where I want to go without charging before hand or on the way, my car will take me 700 miles without stopping if I need to 

 I fill up about every 6 weeks and between times my brain will always know what's roughly in the tank without looking. 

 The BEV has only so many customers, predominantly those who can charge at home and don't do many miles, or those who can charge at home and afford the high charges of charging en-rout 

 As far as it isn't happening or it can't be happening it depends who you are talking to, On here it will be ignored, to me yeah I believe it. 

It should be patently obvious to anyone with any basic cognitive facility that there are limitations to EVs, but also that there are major benefits for many owners. I really can't comprehend why it polarises opinions so much (other than the typical keyboard warriors who just like to stir things/make some noise).

I largely agree with the article posted above about PHEV; if a pure EV did not work for us (eg, if we did a significant number of long journeys), then we'd have bought a PHEV.

I find that once real consideration is made, 'range anxiety' and 'charging difficulties' are either rare and minor inconveniences, or (in the example of being able to drive for weeks on petrol) imagined benefits that most people don't use.  We have a Megane e-Tech which my wife uses and we've never charged it outside the house.  

My wife always talks about 'needing a big enough car to drive to Centre Parcs' which is something we do once per year.  That I'd have to charge it at some point is a trivial concern to me, but somehow much more to my wife...!

I'm a football referee, and so can easily drive 400+ miles in a day.  Stopping somewhere on the way there/back to charge is of minor inconvenience and very easy to manage.  I drive a diesel saloon, but will replace it this year with a Renault Scenic or something similar - the cost benefit through salary sacrifice is just too absurd to miss out on.

EVs are not a direct like-for-like replacement for ICE vehicles.  There are benefits and some detractions, but largely -cost aside - they are either minor, or easily surmountable.  I find the whole debate rather bemusing.

ABrass

I really like the range extender concept. So far they've proven to be disappointing for the most part, too expensive to be worthwhile. I wonder how the current incentives in China relate to their PHEV sales volumes as I think they recently removed some benefits for pure EVs.