EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Just thought I’d mention this, (by way of myth busting if you like that term - I don’t) as it is frequently stated that one of the advantages of an EV is that one doesn’t waste several minutes standing at the petrol pump filling one’s car. Well, that’s true but how much time does it normally take to fill up a petrol or diesel car? 5 or 10 minutes? I’d been meaning to check for a while but finally got round to it today. Now the conditions were ideal, I drove straight up to the pump (no queuing) and my wife went inside the kiosk and stood at the till waiting to pay (contactless) when I had finished (again, no queue). From turning off the engine upon arrival to starting it again took a grand total of just 2 minutes. Now I have to admit, I only added 27 litres (it was the Picanto), but that was enough to add 325 miles of range. To put in 40 litres (a typical fill up for my Golf) would, on this basis, take less than 3 minutes -probably 2m30s. (I could perhaps have shaved a few seconds off my time if I had remembered to operate the remote filler cap release, before I walked round the other side of the car and had to go back and open the car door.) I’ll have to try timing pay at pump sometime. 

Also, while I’m feeling smug about my choice of an ICE, I will mention yesterday’s outing in my Golf. OK, so it wasn’t particularly cold at 8C but it wasn’t hot either. I’d been to Meadowhall shopping centre with my wife and the return journey was a mix of A and B roads and Motorway then a crawl through Gainsborough where my normal route was closed and the diversion was very congested and stop-start. In total the journey was 42 miles and the car averaged 67.7mpg.* It was over 69mpg before I got snarled up in traffic. My point being (2 points actually) that whether it’s 8C or 23C fuel efficiency isn’t greatly affected by temperature and, in good conditions, it is possible to comfortably beat WLTP figures while driving normally (keeping up with other traffic and some overtaking) - neither of which can be said about EVs. 

*indicated mpg - real mpg is probably around 62-63. 

Magnitio

My wife's EV has just consumed 4.8m/kWh for 72 miles, which exceeds WLTP. It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

JKenH

Magnitio said:

My wife's EV has just consumed 4.8m/kWh for 72 miles, which exceeds WLTP. It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

That’s very efficient. Well done. What EV does she have?

Magnitio

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

My wife's EV has just consumed 4.8m/kWh for 72 miles, which exceeds WLTP. It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

That’s very efficient. Well done. What EV does she have?

2020 e-Golf. I accept that it has been achieving around 3.6m/kWh when temperatures have been around freezing as it doesn't have a heat pump, but in this mild weather it is very efficient. My petrol car uses between 10 and 20% more when it's very cold, and is particularly poor on short journeys.

JKenH

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

My wife's EV has just consumed 4.8m/kWh for 72 miles, which exceeds WLTP. It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

That’s very efficient. Well done. What EV does she have?

2020 e-Golf. I accept that it has been achieving around 3.6m/kWh when temperatures have been around freezing as it doesn't have a heat pump, but in this mild weather it is very efficient. My petrol car uses between 10 and 20% more when it's very cold, and is particularly poor on short journeys.

Ah, yes, the e-Golf is supposed to be very efficient. I have read a few reviews that suggest they perform better than the WLTP figures might suggest.  Good choice. I did think about getting one as a runabout but the cabin is so much like my Mk7.5 Golf, I didn’t want two cars the same. 

Grumpy_chap

Magnitio said:

 It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

I have often heard the claims about the very quick times to plug in and charge an EV.
I was never convinced prior to buying an EV.
I remain unconvinced even now that I have an EV and a domestic home wall charger.  It is still quite a faff needing to uncoil the cable, which needs to be straightened out somewhat ready for being put away after charging, point at the socket, wait for the socket to open plug in.  Similar rigmarole for unplugging.
And I need to do the charging more frequently than I'd need to take an ICE to the petrol station.
All in all, I reckon the time spent is about the same.  In some ways the EV is worse because I have to plug that in exposed to the elements whereas the ICE gets a nice big cover at the forecourt so shielded from the worst.

The only way I could see to reduce the time on plugging in and disconnecting the EV charge connector would be to just throw the lead down on the ground and leave it trailing after each use.  Still don't think I'd be as short as 15 seconds.

Obviously, we don't have to stand there for hours to charge an EV as some ICE-favouring commentators would suggest.  Nor do we really do fair justice by putting out faster than reality times for plugging in an EV.

JKenH

Both sides of the EV argument tend to exaggerate the benefits of their side and negatives of the other and that can end up devaluing the argument they are making.

I was watching this video about the M3 Highland while washing up tonight and Richard Symons when talking about  a 20 minute stop for a Tesla charge said filling up a petrol or diesel car “will take10 minutes at least” (at 14.45) https://youtu.be/lWt9kb6ZylM?si=2jwmMNhKXVyiNsPZ

It is impressive that a Tesla can add 200 miles of range in 20 minutes - that speaks for itself. Claiming incorrectly that an ICE car takes at least 10 minutes to fill up (particularly when it isn’t relevant) only undermines the presenter’s credibility as an objective reviewer and makes one question other aspects of the review. 

If I were to say it takes less than 3 minutes to fill up a Golf and more than an hour to completely charge a Model 3 it would be factually correct yet I am sure those who are pro EV would suggest I was making misleading anti EV statements. 

On the subject of home charging I was very lucky in that my charger was located inside the garage where I parked the car. I wouldn’t particularly want to have to unplug and wind up a wet cable while dressed in a suit before setting off for work. At the very least one ends up with wet hands and possibly muddy ones as well. I did, though, use numerous 7kw chargers which during most of my EV ownership were free and got somewhat fed up of winding up a 6m long cable that had been trailing on the ground to fit in a cable bag so it didn’t make the shopping wet and muddy. In the end I bought a 3m cable that was easier to wind up. 

So while I appreciate home charging has its advantages it isn’t completely without problems. 

Netexporter

I watched that video. The ten minutes could easily be true on a crowded forecourt, even if paying at the pump. However, the biggest difference is that whilst an EV is charging you can do other things, like get a drink, go to the toilet, etc. At a motorway services an ICE driver would have to park, use the facilities and then drive the pumps, which could easily be 20 minutes in total.

OK you can put more miles of fuel in an ICE car but you still need to stop for a pee, before you use it all.

Some people are slower to adapt to new circumstances than others. We used to serially go to the butcher, the baker and the candlestick-maker but now most of us just go to the supermarket.

JKenH

Netexporter said:

I watched that video. The ten minutes could easily be true on a crowded forecourt, even if paying at the pump. However, the biggest difference is that whilst an EV is charging you can do other things, like get a drink, go to the toilet, etc. At a motorway services an ICE driver would have to park, use the facilities and then drive the pumps, which could easily be 20 minutes in total.

OK you can put more miles of fuel in an ICE car but you still need to stop for a pee, before you use it all.

Some people are slower to adapt to new circumstances than others. We used to serially go to the butcher, the baker and the candlestick-maker but now most of us just go to the supermarket.

Yes it could if there is a queue, but saying “it will take 10 minutes at least” suggests that is the norm.  There could also be a queue for a Supercharger and then how long will it take to charge? 

Why not just tell it as it is and say it will take 2 or 3 minutes to get fuel and 5 minutes to have a pee? Why does it have to be the worst case scenario for the ICE driver and best for the EV case? 

Adding 200 miles in 20 minutes is the best case charging situation. 0-40% takes 13 minutes but 40 to 80% takes 25 minutes and let’s be honest are you more likely to charge from 0-40% or 40-80%? Will your bladder let you drive until the car is at 0%. The most likely scenario is that you will start a long journey at 100% and probably stop after 150 miles - say 50% or maybe 60% remaining. Let’s assume 50%. You charge for 20 minutes which takes you to 80% during which time you are adding 100 (or possibly 120) miles or so of range - not 200 miles. If you have had traffic or have been driving very efficiently and only used 40% of the battery you start your charge at 60% and it will charge even slower. This time you will get about 25% battery charge added in 20 minutes or around 80 to 90 miles. I’m not saying the Tesla charges slowly, rather that only with a very low battery can you add 200 miles in 20 minutes and in a more typical situation it will be around half that. 

Richard though keeps pressing the point that you can add 200 miles in 20 minutes rather than if you, more typically, stop with 40% remaining and want to add 200 miles it will actually take the best part of an hour. 

Veteransaver

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

My wife's EV has just consumed 4.8m/kWh for 72 miles, which exceeds WLTP. It took her 15 seconds to plug it in when she got home. Myth busted.

That’s very efficient. Well done. What EV does she have?

2020 e-Golf. I accept that it has been achieving around 3.6m/kWh when temperatures have been around freezing as it doesn't have a heat pump, but in this mild weather it is very efficient. My petrol car uses between 10 and 20% more when it's very cold, and is particularly poor on short journeys.

Ah, yes, the e-Golf is supposed to be very efficient. I have read a few reviews that suggest they perform better than the WLTP figures might suggest.  Good choice. I did think about getting one as a runabout but the cabin is so much like my Mk7.5 Golf, I didn’t want two cars the same. 

Got 6 mi per kWh in my Ioniq the other day at 8C. 25 mile journey that took about 40 mins, even had the heating on.
If we are going to compare relative efficiency of EV Vs ICE then you can only really look at the fuel source and work it out from there. A gallon of petrol contains around 40kWh.
My battery is 38kWh and I can get anywhere between 140 miles and 220 miles on it.
So effectively slightly more than 140-220mpg equivalent.
So roughly 3-5 times more efficient than a petrol ICE. Pretty amazing if you ask me.