EV Discussion thread

Veteransaver

ABrass said:

I really like the range extender concept. So far they've proven to be disappointing for the most part, too expensive to be worthwhile. I wonder how the current incentives in China relate to their PHEV sales volumes as I think they recently removed some benefits for pure EVs.

Trouble is, phevs are really the worst of both worlds. They have a small battery and underpowered electric motor, which means under electric only they are capable of pootling about. So if used correctly and within range of the battery they can work out for you but they are overly complex (having 2 drive systems), overly heavy, and once you run out of electric it's just a normal hybrid with disappointing fuel economy.
And with a small battery you have to plug it in more than a full EV too

Magnitio

Veteransaver said:

ABrass said:

I really like the range extender concept. So far they've proven to be disappointing for the most part, too expensive to be worthwhile. I wonder how the current incentives in China relate to their PHEV sales volumes as I think they recently removed some benefits for pure EVs.

Trouble is, phevs are really the worst of both worlds. They have a small battery and underpowered electric motor, which means under electric only they are capable of pootling about. So if used correctly and within range of the battery they can work out for you but they are overly complex (having 2 drive systems), overly heavy, and once you run out of electric it's just a normal hybrid with disappointing fuel economy.
And with a small battery you have to plug it in more than a full EV too

PHEV's have moved on a bit in the last few years, with electric-only ranges exceeding 40 miles and powered by 100bhp+ motors. These are perfectly adequate for many to achieve their daily commutes without burning any petrol. They are obviously not as efficient as a pure EV, but as long as the owners plug them in (which is not always the case) they do help to reduce emissions.

Exodi

I wish the public charger prices were more reasonable !

I drive a 73 plate MG5 EV Trophy with a 61kWh battery. I average somewhere around 160 - 200 miles range, depending on driving style, heating etc. Works out to around 3 miles per kWh.

I'm on an EV tariff with EON Next, so during the day my electricity is 33.787p per kWh (11.26p per mile) and during the night my electricity is 9.5p per kWh (3.17p per mile). As you can expect, virtually all of my charging is done at the night rate.

Obviously we know motorway services are an expensive place to fuel a traditional car, and most have gotten used to and accept the ~15% premium they usually apply. I remember the first time checking the price at an EV charger at the services, expecting maybe 40p in line with the usual motorway premium and almost fainting when I saw 79p/kWh... even shopping round on ZapMap the best I can usually find is 59p/kWh which is about double my day rate.

Obviously operators need to recoup their upfront costs for the installation but the difference between a typical charge at home (61*0.095 = £5.80) and charging at a public rapid charger (61*0.85 = £51.85, or 9x) is so significant that I will move heaven and earth to avoid charging at a public charger. It shouldn't be such a horrible feeling to charge your car.

Netexporter

I drive a 73 plate MG5 EV Trophy with a 61kWh battery. I average somewhere around 160 - 200 miles range, depending on driving style, heating etc. Works out to around 3 miles per kWh.

I drive a 71 plate equivalent and even in the cold snap my consumption hasn't gone below 3m/kWh. I get 4.5m/kWh (270 miles) in summer.

I will move heaven and earth to avoid charging at a public charger.

Try a lighter right foot!

Exodi

Netexporter said:

I drive a 73 plate MG5 EV Trophy with a 61kWh battery. I average somewhere around 160 - 200 miles range, depending on driving style, heating etc. Works out to around 3 miles per kWh.

I drive a 71 plate equivalent and even in the cold snap my consumption hasn't gone below 3m/kWh. I get 4.5m/kWh (270 miles) in summer.

I will move heaven and earth to avoid charging at a public charger.

Try a lighter right foot!

Wow 4.5 kWh/m is incredible, I received the car in December so have yet to use it in warmer weather.

Don't get the wrong impression, I use the car in eco mode, virtually always have the heating off (only switching it on eco to clear the windscreen for a couple of minutes) and use the adaptive cruise control to minimise harsh acceleration/braking. I'm all about economising (someone did say that you shouldn't use eco on motorways and should use comfort mode instead, but the range counter and my experience strongly contradicts this). I guess one option to get more would be to set the ACC below the speed limit.

I can get a bit above 200 miles if I'm focused but if I can get 270ish during the summer I'll be jumping for joy!

Netexporter

I charged mine on Sunday night to 100%, because I was being paid to use electricity, and it showed 220 miles range in Eco at a temperature of about 8 degrees. I got 3.5m/kWh on a 12 mile round trip to the shops.

henrik777

michaels said:

Driving 700 miles without stopping would be illegal for a professional driver for obvious reasons

For sure EVs are more suitable to some use cases than others but perhaps just like wearing seatbelts some may have to accept that the social good could triumph of their individual freedoms?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/14/selby.railtravel

Potentially illegal for anyone.

Martyn1981

ABrass said:

I really like the range extender concept. So far they've proven to be disappointing for the most part, too expensive to be worthwhile. I wonder how the current incentives in China relate to their PHEV sales volumes as I think they recently removed some benefits for pure EVs.

GM sold a large number of Volt's (a Rx vehicle) in the US, and owners seem to praise them a lot in the BTL comments on EV news articles, but GM killed it off due to financial losses. I don't think we saw many of them in the UK (Ampera-E), but the BMW i3 Rx did sell.

I was very interested in the comments from a lady on an EV thread on the Motoring board many years ago - she explained that she drives about 48k miles pa, and gets a new company car every two years. She had an i3Rx for two years, but then replaced it with just an 'ordinary' i3 as she'd used the Rx so little. Her trick, was to do all of her paperwork at the charging stations. Cool.

Martyn1981

henrik777 said:

michaels said:

Driving 700 miles without stopping would be illegal for a professional driver for obvious reasons

For sure EVs are more suitable to some use cases than others but perhaps just like wearing seatbelts some may have to accept that the social good could triumph of their individual freedoms?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/14/selby.railtravel

Potentially illegal for anyone.

Plus the additional valeting costs, as that's about 500miles beyond my bladder range.

JKenH

ASA labels manufacturers ‘zero emissions’ claims misleading

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has ruled that two adverts from different manufacturers making ‘zero emissions’ claims in marketing material were misleading.

A paid for BMW advert on Google seen on August 16, 2023, featured the claim, “Zero emissions cars – Download your brochure today. Visit BMW’s official online website. Find the perfect BMW electric car. Book a test drive. Explore a range of BMW electric cars…”.

However, the ASA challenged whether the claim "zero emissions cars" misleadingly represented the vehicles’ environmental impact.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/asa-labels-manufacturers-zero-emissions-claims-misleading

It is interesting that ASA has ruled BMW and MG ads for “zero emissions “ cars as misleading but failed to do so for Toyota using the term “self charging hybrid”.

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/motoring-electric-vehicles.html