EV Discussion thread

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

Thanks - I can see how the EG Group press release may have been mis-read.  "AQUIRE" does tend to have a loaded meaning when used in press releases.

It is, though, very poor journalism by Car Dealer Magazine as their headline and leading paragraph would seem to be wholly incorrect:

"Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers"

"Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda"

So, there is no "taking over" and no purchase of the "network".
Perhaps the incorrect conclusion was jumped to from the use of the word AQUIRE, especially in the context of EG Group who have driven a large amount of the business expansion through ACQUISITION...

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

Thanks - I can see how the EG Group press release may have been mis-read.  "AQUIRE" does tend to have a loaded meaning when used in press releases.

It is, though, very poor journalism by Car Dealer Magazine as their headline and leading paragraph would seem to be wholly incorrect:

"Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers"

"Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda"

So, there is no "taking over" and no purchase of the "network".
Perhaps the incorrect conclusion was jumped to from the use of the word AQUIRE, especially in the context of EG Group who have driven a large amount of the business expansion through ACQUISITION...

Yes, very poor reporting from CarDealer.  Apologies for that.

Edit: CarDealer has now corrected the report and added a postscript:

This story was originally published at 10.35am on November 13, 2023 and updated at 2.48pm after factual errors in the submitted copy on which we based our article were brought to our attention  

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

Thanks - I can see how the EG Group press release may have been mis-read.  "AQUIRE" does tend to have a loaded meaning when used in press releases.

It is, though, very poor journalism by Car Dealer Magazine as their headline and leading paragraph would seem to be wholly incorrect:

"Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers"

"Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda"

So, there is no "taking over" and no purchase of the "network".
Perhaps the incorrect conclusion was jumped to from the use of the word AQUIRE, especially in the context of EG Group who have driven a large amount of the business expansion through ACQUISITION...

A great decision, I think, for Tesla to start selling their kit. I suggested semi tongue-in-cheek a while back, that the UK could help solve the rapid charging issue, if they struck a subsidy deal with Tesla. My thought was that Tesla would get some support (not sure exactly what shape) to rollout additional SC sites that are open to all users, and at the same cost. This would be on top off their normal expansion of the Tesla network.

But having more charging networks, being able to use (presumably) cheaper and reliable kit, is probably a much better solution, and avoids any concerns about monopolistic practices.

I've heard EG are good, but only anecdotal?

thevilla

Won't be supporting Chademo though

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

Thanks - I can see how the EG Group press release may have been mis-read.  "AQUIRE" does tend to have a loaded meaning when used in press releases.

It is, though, very poor journalism by Car Dealer Magazine as their headline and leading paragraph would seem to be wholly incorrect:

"Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers"

"Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda"

So, there is no "taking over" and no purchase of the "network".
Perhaps the incorrect conclusion was jumped to from the use of the word AQUIRE, especially in the context of EG Group who have driven a large amount of the business expansion through ACQUISITION...

A great decision, I think, for Tesla to start selling their kit. I suggested semi tongue-in-cheek a while back, that the UK could help solve the rapid charging issue, if they struck a subsidy deal with Tesla. My thought was that Tesla would get some support (not sure exactly what shape) to rollout additional SC sites that are open to all users, and at the same cost. This would be on top off their normal expansion of the Tesla network.

But having more charging networks, being able to use (presumably) cheaper and reliable kit, is probably a much better solution, and avoids any concerns about monopolistic practices.

I've heard EG are good, but only anecdotal?

My DW has managed to charge at one of their stations a couple of times - so they must be pretty fool proof

JKenH

I seem to recall reading recently that BEVs cover slightly higher mileages than ICE cars but this study suggests otherwise. Is it that other studies compare EV mileages with average ICE mileages? As cars get older they generate driven less so newer cars will do higher mileages. The EV fleet is newer than the ICE fleet on average so this may explain the contrasting study results.

US study finds EVs driven less

The researchers also compared miles traveled in Tesla versus non Tesla BEVs, given Tesla’s prominence in the EV market and other features like higher range vehicles and a well established fast-charging network. Nonetheless, they found that while Teslas were driven more than other EVs, Teslas were still driven less than conventional ICE cars. 

https://www.just-auto.com/news/us-study-finds-evs-driven-less/

Edit; This may be the article I was remembering. It’s for UK fleets rather than US.

EV company car mileage on a par with ICE equivalents

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/01/19/ev-company-car-mileage-on-a-par-with-ice-equivalents

ABrass

It echos studies from the US that also used the same data set, the milage on vehicles advertised for sale online.

It may or may not be an accurate representation of the vehicles on the road as it's only people selling an EV that are being sampled, not the ones keeping one. On the other hand that's also true for ICE sales.

Netexporter

An Electric Viking video on Toyota finally waking up and smelling the coffee:

Toyota reveal why Tesla and BYD are way ahead in EV manufacturing - YouTube

Martyn1981

Netexporter said:

An Electric Viking video on Toyota finally waking up and smelling the coffee:

Toyota reveal why Tesla and BYD are way ahead in EV manufacturing - YouTube

But they've doubled down on H2 too, by producing the H2 ICE HIACE van. It can produce a mighty 160bhp from its twin turbo 3.4l V6 engine, and has a range of up ~120 miles.  


Older vid from Engineering Explained looking into the practicalities(?) of a HICE V8. Worth watching, but for a quick lesson, skip to 4.50min to see the storage space needed for 300 miles of range.

The Unfortunate Truth About Toyota's Hydrogen V8 Engine

The video demonstrates the problem that's likely the most difficult to solve relating to hydrogen combustion vehicles, though there are other technical challenges. The fueling infrastructure doesn't exist, but it could. Most of today's hydrogen comes from natural gas reformation (hence, carbon emissions), but it can be made cleanly with electrolysis, if the energy source is clean. Making clean hydrogen energy requires tons of energy, but if you're able to generate abundant clean energy, it's slightly less of an issue (efficiency will always matter). Combustion inefficiency makes hydrogen driving quite costly considering it's the equivalent of paying $15/gal. Hydrogen combustion also has NOx emissions, despite no CO2 (okay, a little CO2 from engine oil). NOx is difficult to avoid with combustion engines. Realistically, today's hydrogen engines are less efficient than gasoline/diesel (meaning the bucket situation is very likely worse than shown in the video), but they haven't been perfected as much as gas/diesel. Still, fuel cells & EVs will always be more efficient. And you still need to make sure the 10,000 psi pressure vessel has a safe location in the vehicle. There are many challenges, but it's an interesting subject.

CKhalvashi

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

Thanks - I can see how the EG Group press release may have been mis-read.  "AQUIRE" does tend to have a loaded meaning when used in press releases.

It is, though, very poor journalism by Car Dealer Magazine as their headline and leading paragraph would seem to be wholly incorrect:

"Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers"

"Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda"

So, there is no "taking over" and no purchase of the "network".
Perhaps the incorrect conclusion was jumped to from the use of the word AQUIRE, especially in the context of EG Group who have driven a large amount of the business expansion through ACQUISITION...

I need to be careful how I word this as I have a financial interest in a network and also a charging station manufacturer that sells to that network (and others), but I'm not sure they're the cheapest, but can be pretty sure that they're the most well known reliable option for now (speaking generally as technology is quickly moving).

The last purchase agreement was for €46000 per 440kW charging unit, to be split between 2 parking spaces. I'm not sure of the latest Supercharger rates, but the maximum is 360kW for a single car charging for one of these. The order (for clarity) was for 11 units and for the mainland EU market (with a grant of approximately 45% of that back from the national government).

I can't disclose more without speaking to the FT, as I don't want to be seen to advertise.