EV Discussion thread

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

 the return of EV grants coupled with increasingly punitive taxation on the more polluting vehicles. 

I suspect you may only be half right in your aspirations.  I doubt that EV grants will return but increasing taxes on polluting vehicles may be more likely.  I suspect that will be coupled with increasing taxes on all kinds of BEV as well.

Grumpy_chap

Grumpy_chap said:

@michaels
@JKenH
Thanks for your observations - I think there was an error in the split of granny charger versus home charger miles.

I have kept a detailed spreadsheet of charges using the granny charger but decided to only record monthly data in totals for the home charger.  Partly because the home charger allows that, partly because that is less effort and partly because aggregate is more useful than individual charges (where variables can have a proportionately larger impact).

The last entry for the spreadsheet on the granny charger was 23rd September at 2,108 miles. 
Total plug 594.44 kWh
Total car 516 kWh
15.2% charging loss on that occasion.

The home charger was installed on 27th September.
I have been through my screen shots and I did a charge on 27th September.  Car says 37 kWh.
In my photos for the same day, the home charger meter says 39.85 kWh.
That would be a charging loss of 7.7% (which is more akin to what I have read from other posters).
I also have mileage recorded from the evening of 26th September at 2,304 miles (recorded because it was a business journey).

This means my previous figures need correcting:

Grumpy_chap said:

Granny charger.  2,108 miles.  594 kWh.  3.54 miles / kWh
Home charger.   1,598 miles.  383 kWh.  4.14 miles / kWh

This should be:
Granny charger.  2,304 miles.  594 kWh.  3.87 miles / kWh
Home charger.  1,402 miles.  383 kWh.  3.66 miles / kWh
The car is currently (in that data set at 2nd November) "full" so I think I need to wait until the end of November to get a representative "home charger" figure which will be "full-to-full".

I could just do a charge to full now, but it is raining cats-n-dogs out there

I will update this now with the corrected figures.

I collected the car with 12 miles showing and fully charged.
I have deleted the charge put in by Tesla to provide the initial fully charged.
When the home charge was installed, the mileage showing was 2,304.
That means 2,292 miles.
Total charge from the granny charger to that point (from the plug) 557.64 kWh
Plus the first charge from the home charger to bring back to fully charged.  39.85 kWh
Total 597.49 kWh
Overall (from granny charger) 3.84 miles/kWh

I have just now completed a charge from the home charger.
Miles 3,817 showing.  Less 2,304 miles.  1,513 miles.
30 kWh from supercharger
Sub-Meter for home charger 384.64 kWh.  Less 39.85 kWh.  344.79 kWh
Total 374.79 kWh
Overall (from home charger plus 1 SC charge) 4.04 miles/kWh

That seems to be a meaningful advantage from using the home charger compared to the granny charger.
These are figures that take into account all charging losses, vampire losses, heating, cooling, etc...



I also thought I'd comment on our trip to Great Yarmouth.
I charged to 100% and setting out from home, the car showed available range 342 miles.
We arrived at the destination 175 miles later with 55% still showing on Friday afternoon.

Leaving the car parked for the weekend, we set off on Monday with 52% or 178 miles range showing.
Technically, it would have been enough to get home, but not one I would risk.

The car suggested to go to a charge location 52 minutes away.  That worked well as the last thing I said to Mrs G_C before checking out was to ask if she wanted a coffee before setting off and her preference was to stop after an hour or so for a coffee.
As an observation, the car chose the SC locations and did not give a choice.

Anyway, we followed the instructions and were taken to a GRIDSERVE facility which seemed to host different brands of charging infrastructure.  Including the TESLA SuperChargers that we needed.
It was conveniently located, no further from the main route than a motorway services would be from the motorway.
We pulled in and pulled straight into a charging space.  Plugged in, and charging was underway.

The venue was amazingly modern, very clean, very functional with great facilities for the business traveller.  A small news-stand, small food shop, coffee kiosk, comfortable seating, meeting pods, spotless toilets.  All very impressive.

We went in and ordered our coffee (no queue) and, as we were paying, I received a text to say the car was charged sufficiently for us to continue and complete our journey.
Sat down to drink our coffee and, before we had finished, I received a text to tell me the car was fully charged.  Only 22 minutes from when we had pulled in. 
In fact, that was one of the down-sides as I was also informed idle fees would apply if I did not move the car within 5 minutes, so I interrupted my coffee and off I trot to move the car.  A bit of a negative on the facility - there were not many parking spaces that were not charge spaces so I was "lucky" to get the one remaining space.

Anyway, back to finish the coffee, toilet break and then we continued our journey home.

This was an entirely eventless experience.
I totally understand the need to move off the charge station, but it does impact from the relaxation element of the rest break.
The limited parking spaces was a down side.
We were really impressed by the charge station but, if it had been much busier, or had families stopping I think it would have become overwhelmed and crowded.

All-in-all, a pleasant experience.

silvercar

To be fair, you would never think of blocking a place at a petrol station, because you want to finish your coffee! Also, the idle charges only kick in if the chargers are more than 50% occupied, which is quite clever. Your other option would have been the slower gridserve chargers, though I think they are more expensive. If the only complaint is that the chargers are too quick then that is good.

We had a similar experience at Rugby service station, the chargers are situated on the furthest side of the car park (positive in that no one blocks them), downside is that if you don't need much charge you can be told your car is charged when you haven't even had time to use the facilities and get back to the car.

Grumpy_chap

silvercar said:

To be fair, you would never think of blocking a place at a petrol station, because you want to finish your coffee! Also, the idle charges only kick in if the chargers are more than 50% occupied, which is quite clever. Your other option would have been the slower gridserve chargers, though I think they are more expensive. If the only complaint is that the chargers are too quick then that is good.

I absolutely totally agree that it is the right thing to do to move the car once charged.
As for the idle fees only applying if over 50% of the chargers are in use - well, I don't know exact percentages but there were about half in use when we arrived.
I am not complaining that the chargers are too quick. 

What I do think is that the facilities need more parking space as there were very few parking spaces that were not chargers.  
That is of course, a catch-22 for the facility operator.  If they had loads of parking space but then all the chargers were full, the comment would be "just make every space a charging space".
BUT, they do have a lot of services that encourage spend and longer stay.  Car sales (which I did not mention in my post above) and the business pods (hire by the hour) which all mean staying much longer than charging duration.

Considering the time, 22 minutes to fully charged is not really much longer than filling an ICE with petrol, especially if there is a wait for a pump and using the kiosk to pay.  The "charged enough to complete the journey" message was only five minutes after arrival.

Reed_Richards

I have a Mokka-e with a 50 kWh battery.  The car only reports its state of charge to the nearest percent but last night I charged it from 56% to 86% using a granny charger and 16.647 kWh of electricity.  So that's 15 kWh stored energy added with 16.647 kWh on electricity.  My granny charger is connected via a Tapo P110 energy monitor (& timer) which I assume is accurate.  So that's 90% charging efficiency, 10% loss.  However the actually stored energy could be anywhere between 14.5 and 15.5 kWh, possibly even 14 to 16 kWh.     

JKenH

I originally posted this on the EV news thread but on reflection, as it isn’t good news (at least I don’t think it is) and might start a discussion, I have moved it here. Will the seamless charging Tesla owners enjoy continue?

The big question, though, is why have Tesla taken this step? For a moment, I honestly thought it was April Fool’s Day..

Asda’s owner to take over and rebrand Tesla’s network of Superchargers

Tesla’s network of ultra-fast chargers is to be bought by the petrol station giant that owns Asda.

EG Group, which is run by brothers Mohsin and Zuber Issa, said the so-called Superchargers will be branded evpoint and available to all electric vehicle drivers.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/asdas-owner-to-take-over-teslas-network-of-superchargers/292992

Grumpy_chap

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Netexporter

BP have ordered a lot of Tesla chargers, to use under their Pulse brand. Could this not be a similar deal?

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Are EG group buying the current network of SCs?
That is how the article reads at the start.

Later, it simply refers to making the technology available to EG group and others "excited to make our fast-charging hardware available for purchase to EG Group and other leaders in the space"

Nope, they are just buying SC's from Tesla. BP announced a $100m deal last month for deployment in the US.

The Tesla SC's have a great reputation, and are being churned out far cheaper than other models, so they've started to sell them to other companies for deployment.

Other articles on the decision aren't misleading:

EG Group Acquire Tesla's Ultra Fast Chargers

1961Nick

I read this as a deal whereby Asda buys chargers from Tesla for their forecourts & they will be branded Evpoint.