EV Discussion thread

Netexporter

It's almost as if Toyota aren't interested in EVs:

Lexus UX300E - Oh Dear, Oh Dear! - YouTube

JKenH

The new Skoda Superb PHEV has a 25.7kWh battery. That would cover most of my day to day driving with the ICE engine there for my long runs. With a 50kW charge capability it would enable a modest top up while I use motorway facilities or grab a coffee (from my flask). I see PHEVs making a bit of a comeback. 

New Skoda Superb grows in size and turns up the style

Topping the range is a new plug-in hybrid Superb iV model that pairs the 1.5 petrol engine with an electric motor for combined output of 201bhp. However, it’s the bigger 25.7kWh battery that’s the story here, allowing the iV to do over 60 miles on electricity alone, with a 10-80 per cent charge on a 50kW charger taking 25 mins. We’ve yet to see CO2 figures, but expect strong BiK tax savings on this model.

https://aex-sa-master.app.prod.autoviadev.co.uk/skoda/superb/361402/new-skoda-superb-grows-size-and-turns-style

JKenH

Netexporter said:

It's almost as if Toyota aren't interested in EVs:

Lexus UX300E - Oh Dear, Oh Dear! - YouTube

Chademo doesn’t make much sense in the UK anymore so I can only presume that it was designed for the Japanese market. Still, some people never use public chargers so its 72kWh battery might be an attraction to someone who wants a luxury EV but doesn’t stray too far from home or even has an ICE car for long trips. I wonder if it will do V2G/H. (If you have a V2G charger at home for a Leaf then it saves having to install a separate type 2 charger). @Michaels one for you in a couple of years time? Should be able to pick them up cheap secondhand. 

Netexporter

I wonder if it will do V2G/H

That is its one potential saving grace, although not mentioned in the review.

On the other hand you could buy an MG4 and 50kWh of home batteries for that money.

michaels

JKenH said:

Netexporter said:

It's almost as if Toyota aren't interested in EVs:

Lexus UX300E - Oh Dear, Oh Dear! - YouTube

Chademo doesn’t make much sense in the UK anymore so I can only presume that it was designed for the Japanese market. Still, some people never use public chargers so its 72kWh battery might be an attraction to someone who wants a luxury EV but doesn’t stray too far from home or even has an ICE car for long trips. I wonder if it will do V2G/H. (If you have a V2G charger at home for a Leaf then it saves having to install a separate type 2 charger). @Michaels one for you in a couple of years time? Should be able to pick them up cheap secondhand. 

Already had a look - the 21-23 model only has 54kwh possibly 44kwh useable so basically same as a leaf 40 and same size car too, new one from April 23 has 72kwh but is £46k - asked on the V2H group but no one has confirmed whether it works for V2H.

Currently Chademo provision is not too bad but I guess this is likely to get worse.

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

How does Tesla fit into the quality positioning?

What little there is inside the cabin seems to work OK.

Too many rattles for a car costing that much... although previous BMWs & Jags haven't been immune to squeaks & rattles either. 

Given the much wider choice of EVs available now, then based on the current market offerings, will it be another Tesla next time round or something different? Although I am quite a keen VW Golf fan I do like a change of scenery from the drivers seat when I change my car. I had 3 different Volvo V70s between 2000 and around 2017 but they all had distinctly different cockpits.  Unless Tesla have a change of heart I imagine future models will feature a similar central rectangular touch screen and not much else - would that (more of the same) put you off?

PS, I know all Tesla owners say they will never sell their Teslas but if you did…?

I'll be very tempted if Tesla bring out a Highland Plaid as long as the price isn't too prohibitive & I get a decent px on mine.

There is a good choice of EVs but the one thing I like about the Model 3 is the relatively light weight for an EV. There are other EVs that can match the Tesla's performance, but it comes at the expense of weight or range.

Grumpy_chap

Grumpy_chap said:

skutter2k said:

Might be a silly question this. Away using not the best of sockets with a granny charger so I've had to dial charging down to 8A. Doesn't bother me that it takes longer but does it use more if you charge it slowly? I.e. is there an optimal charging current? 

No such thing as a silly question.

It has been mentioned variously that the charging losses are greater from a granny charger than wall box.  I cannot give a definitive answer yet as I am a new EVer.  I was on the granny charger and logged the losses (around 15%) and now on a wall box so will soon be able to give a calculated loss for using that.  In fact, I am at the month end, so this might be a good prompt for me to read that meter.  I will try to update shortly.

I will pick up on this with my data.

From buying the car new, I was charging on the granny charger and logging losses between the plug and the car.  There was some variance but, over 2,108 miles it was 15% loss.

I realise now that I have the home charger operational, I have not kept records that allow me to give a similar record of losses between charge point and car.  What I can do, though, is compare the overall miles / kWh, as follows:

Granny charger.  2,108 miles.  594 kWh.  3.54 miles / kWh
Home charger.   1,598 miles.  383 kWh.  4.14 miles / kWh

That shows a clear betterment in efficiency using the home charger versus the granny charger.  The home charger energy does include one SC fill.  I will write further about my longer journey and first experience of charging away from home in a post later when I have a bit more time.

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

skutter2k said:

Might be a silly question this. Away using not the best of sockets with a granny charger so I've had to dial charging down to 8A. Doesn't bother me that it takes longer but does it use more if you charge it slowly? I.e. is there an optimal charging current? 

No such thing as a silly question.

It has been mentioned variously that the charging losses are greater from a granny charger than wall box.  I cannot give a definitive answer yet as I am a new EVer.  I was on the granny charger and logged the losses (around 15%) and now on a wall box so will soon be able to give a calculated loss for using that.  In fact, I am at the month end, so this might be a good prompt for me to read that meter.  I will try to update shortly.

I will pick up on this with my data.

From buying the car new, I was charging on the granny charger and logging losses between the plug and the car.  There was some variance but, over 2,108 miles it was 15% loss.

I realise now that I have the home charger operational, I have not kept records that allow me to give a similar record of losses between charge point and car.  What I can do, though, is compare the overall miles / kWh, as follows:

Granny charger.  2,108 miles.  594 kWh.  3.54 miles / kWh
Home charger.   1,598 miles.  383 kWh.  4.14 miles / kWh

That shows a clear betterment in efficiency using the home charger versus the granny charger.  The home charger energy does include one SC fill.  I will write further about my longer journey and first experience of charging away from home in a post later when I have a bit more time.

Thanks - for the granny charger did you use an energy monitor on the plug socket so you can be pretty certain you measured 'energy from the grid' and is this what is reported above?

However I am not sure you can have the same level of confidence that what the home charger is telling you re energy consumption is accurate unless you used something like a clamp on the incoming cable or it is on a dedicated meter?

Grumpy_chap

michaels said:

Thanks - for the granny charger did you use an energy monitor on the plug socket so you can be pretty certain you measured 'energy from the grid' and is this what is reported above?

However I am not sure you can have the same level of confidence that what the home charger is telling you re energy consumption is accurate unless you used something like a clamp on the incoming cable or it is on a dedicated meter?

Yes.

When using the granny charger I had an energy monitoring plug:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BND49T9H/
I logged every charge individually, what was recorded as input to the car and what was recorded as use by the plug.  Overall, the kWh as shown on the Tesla app 516 kWh and shown by the power monitor plug 594 kWh.

With the home charger, I have a dedicated supply from the meter, local isolator and dedicated meter in line.
The 383 kWh referenced in the thread above is the 353 kWh used from the home supply plus 30 kWh from the single use of the SC (as declared by the car).

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

skutter2k said:

Might be a silly question this. Away using not the best of sockets with a granny charger so I've had to dial charging down to 8A. Doesn't bother me that it takes longer but does it use more if you charge it slowly? I.e. is there an optimal charging current? 

No such thing as a silly question.

It has been mentioned variously that the charging losses are greater from a granny charger than wall box.  I cannot give a definitive answer yet as I am a new EVer.  I was on the granny charger and logged the losses (around 15%) and now on a wall box so will soon be able to give a calculated loss for using that.  In fact, I am at the month end, so this might be a good prompt for me to read that meter.  I will try to update shortly.

I will pick up on this with my data.

From buying the car new, I was charging on the granny charger and logging losses between the plug and the car.  There was some variance but, over 2,108 miles it was 15% loss.

I realise now that I have the home charger operational, I have not kept records that allow me to give a similar record of losses between charge point and car.  What I can do, though, is compare the overall miles / kWh, as follows:

Granny charger.  2,108 miles.  594 kWh.  3.54 miles / kWh
Home charger.   1,598 miles.  383 kWh.  4.14 miles / kWh

That shows a clear betterment in efficiency using the home charger versus the granny charger.  The home charger energy does include one SC fill.  I will write further about my longer journey and first experience of charging away from home in a post later when I have a bit more time.

Hmmm! That would suggest that charging from the home charger was virtually 100% efficient. I kWh gives you 3.54 miles of range at the 85% efficiency of your granny charger. If your granny charger was 100% efficient you would get 4.16 miles. Your home charger, therefore based on this data has an efficiency of 99.5%. 

I have never seen the efficiency of a charger worked out quite like this before. I think you will agree that calculating the efficiency of your home charger by this method relies on an assumption that your vehicle consumption remains the same over the second 1598 miles as it was over the first 2108 miles that you granny charged. Is not the more likely explanation that your journey profile/speed and weather caused the variation in consumption?

Presumably from your comments that you made records of your granny charging sessions you know the draw from the grid was 594kWh. Where did the 383 kWh figure for the home charger come from? What is the source of the 4.14mpk figure?

Edit: I have just noticed your reply to @Michaels so now need to digest the new information