EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

JKenH said:

No spoilers, read the article if you want to know. 

True or false? EVs are cheaper to service, maintain and repair than petrol and diesel cars

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12671771/True-false-EVs-cheaper-service-maintain-repair.html

£1700 seemed a bit steep for Model Y tyres over 30K? A set of 4 Michelin acoustic EV tyres is around £800 fitted.

Another issue for EV owners is the incentive for manufacturers to build servicing schedules to keep dealer service departments in work rather than reflecting the actual needs of the car. Here's the service sheet for the Jaguar iPace as an example...



Other than changing a pollen filter, the rest of it is 'tyre kicking' until you reach 105,000 miles. Brake fluid can be done by Kwik Fit for a fraction of the JLR price.

1961Nick

Here are the servicing requirements for my Model 3...

Service Intervals

Your vehicle should generally be serviced on an as-needed basis. However, Tesla recommends the following maintenance items and intervals, as applicable to your vehicle, to ensure continued reliability and efficiency of your Model 3.

For more do-it-yourself maintenance procedures and information, see https://www.tesla.com/support/do-it-yourself-guides.

For more information on vehicle alerts, see Troubleshooting Alerts.

• Brake fluid health check every 4 years (replace if necessary)**.
• A/C desiccant bag replacement every 4* years.
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years (or 3 years for HEPA and carbon filters, if equipped)
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter.
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first.

*A/C desiccant bag replacement can be extended to 6 years on vehicles manufactured between approximately 2017-2021.

Martyn1981

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

Legacy are now struggling somewhat with the transition, and Japan must be very nervous, having given China such a huge headstart.

Dinosaurs will die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPKQSQSVVos

NoFX were thinking of the major music labels when they wrote the song, but it can also be applied to (some) legacy auto manufacturers.

Parental advisory - explicit lyrics.

Good music to start the morning off, and wake me up, thanks. Some Thunderstruck now, to keep the mood going.

Been a very interesting couple of weeks, with Tesla's earning call, and the 'depressed' Elon Musk talking up fears of inflation, and a slow down in the world economy, and of course car/BEV sales.

Then we see VWG, GM and Ford all reporting troubles and the need to take their foot of the gas pedal (pun intended) for BEV's, as losses mount. No surprise there, as Tesla lost $bn's for years, till they reached profitabilty after the expanse of ramping production to scale. At least Tesla is adding $bn's to their cash balance atm. BMW also appear to be in a crisis of confidence - they have good BEV sales, but keep flipping between BEV's, e-fuels, and even HFCV's. Almost forgot Toyota and their ~0.4% BEV sales, but next year Rodney, they'll sell millions.

Fun times ahead, and currently a Highway to Hell, for some.

JKenH

Mike Hawes at the SMMT has continued to make bullish comments about EVs for several months but has now finally admitted EV sales are flatlining which should have been obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense, If he was in touch with the motor industry he would have have known that orders were falling. (We have seen from VW that because of order backlogs sales continue to rise while orders are falling so if sales are flatlining this should have been apparent weeks or even months ago). There is a tendency, not unique to the RE industry, when things aren’t going too well to keep putting on a brave face and pretending it will be alright on the night - until the pretence can be maintained no longer. (We have seen the same with Elon Musk - continued price slashing and factory shutdowns “for upgrades” while all the time maintaining that there is no demand issue ). Usually by this stage things are pretty serious and about to get much worse. 

Bring back plug-in car grant to boost EV sales again, says SMMT boss

• SMMT says growth in sales of EVs is ‘flatlining’

Now, in an article in The Times, SMMT chief executive Mike Hawes says the growth in EV sales is ‘flatlining’ so more needs to be done again to get larger number of people buying electric vehicles.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bring-back-plug-in-car-grant-to-boost-ev-sales-again-says-smmt-boss/292099

Edit SMMT 4 August 2023:

The demand for battery electric cars was such that a new one was registered every 60 seconds in the month. Furthermore, according to the latest market outlook published today, this will accelerate to one every 50 seconds by the end of the year, and up to one every 40 seconds by the end of 2024.3

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/08/summer-surge-as-one-new-ev-registered-every-60-seconds/

JKenH

This doesn’t really come as any surprise but I would have expected that China would wait a little longer until EV manufacture had ramped up in the West to the extent that we had to go begging - perhaps handing over Taiwan to China with our blessing to secure our supplies. Or it could just be that China is reminding the West not to mess with them - they hold all the cards now. Or it could just be business - restrict raw material supplies to our competitors so we can sell them the finished product at a higher price. No wonder the share prices of Chinese EV and battery manufacturers shot up. 

Why do we put ourselves in this position?

China, world's top graphite producer, tightens exports of key battery material

China said on Friday it will require export permits for some graphite products to protect national security, springing a surprise with another bid to control critical mineral supply in response to challenges over its global manufacturing dominance.

China is the world's top graphite producer and exporter. It also refines more than 90% of the world's graphite into the material that is used in virtually all EV battery anodes, which is the negatively charged portion of a battery.

Under the new restrictions, China will require as of Dec. 1 that exporters apply for permits to ship two types of graphite, including high-purity, high-hardness and high-intensity synthetic graphite material, and natural flake graphite and its products.

Meanwhile, it dropped temporary controls on five less sensitive graphite items used in basic industries such as steel, metallurgy, and chemicals.

With rising sales of electric vehicles, automakers are racing to lock in supplies from outside China, but shortages are looming.

Shares in China's new energy vehicle and battery makers rose after the announcement.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-require-export-permits-some-graphite-products-dec-1-2023-10-20/

michaels

I know anecdote is not data but I have just renewed my EV car insurance and it is up about 11% from last year ( I shop around each year rather than taking the renewal quote).

1961Nick

michaels said:

I know anecdote is not data but I have just renewed my EV car insurance and it is up about 11% from last year ( I shop around each year rather than taking the renewal quote).

I've renewed my Evoque insurance today & it's risen by 12%.

The Tesla insurance renewed in June & rose by 37%

JKenH

Toyota has built an EV with a fake transmission, and we’ve driven it

Five minutes behind the wheel, and you'll be a believer.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/

michaels

JKenH said:

Toyota has built an EV with a fake transmission, and we’ve driven it

Five minutes behind the wheel, and you'll be a believer.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/

Fricking mental - what's not to like

JKenH

Toyota Cuts EV Sales Expectations By 39 Percent As Its Profits Soar Thanks To Hybrids

Previously, the Japanese group predicted that its operating profit would match a record-high level of 3 trillion yen ($20.1 billion), but with the latest financial report, that prediction has gone up to 4.5 trillion yen ($30.15 billion).

In the last fiscal quarter, Toyota registered a pretty rare double-digit operating profit margin of 12.6 percent worldwide, more than double the year before when it had a margin of 6.1 percent.

https://insideevs.com/news/694239/toyota-cuts-ev-sales-expectations-record-profit/

It seems Toyota is reading the market better than its competitors. Toyota’s profit last quarter was 5 times that of Tesla with a significantly better operating margin. Now this may be only one moment in time but the trend in profitability definitely favours Toyota. 

Yet surprisingly Tesla market cap as of October 31, 2023 is $627.39B. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/market-cap 
compared to Toyota market cap as of October 31, 2023 is $237.34B. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TM/toyota/market-cap

Edit: it seems Toyota is not the only Automaker beating Tesla on margins.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/toyota-earnings-tesla-flaw-c553b8f7

A year ago we were seeing reports that Tesla were earning 8 times as much profit per car as Toyota. https://electrek.co/2022/11/08/tesla-tsla-earns-8-times-more-per-car-than-toyota/