EV Discussion thread

Netexporter

 That's got the sticky fingerprints of Big Oil all over it, I reckon.

JKenH

The allegations aren’t new but the DoJ getting involved has moved this up a gear.

Tesla under new investigation by DOJ as feds say Elon Musk's cars lied about driving ranges and set up a 'diversion team' to cancel appointments from EV owners who complained | Daily Mail Online

Tesla is the target of another DOJ investigation as, this time, federal officials say the Elon Musk owned company lied about the vehicles' driving ranges.

The latest investigation adds to a pile of probes into Musk's company, including one that alleged they set up a secret team to suppress complaints from customers.

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Does BMW know something we don’t?

BMW will launch hydrogen cars by 2030 – but warns UK is lagging behind

BMW is planning to roll out a series of hydrogen-powered production cars by the end of the decade – but the UK risks lagging behind.

BMW has been working closely with Toyota on its hydrogen plans for the last decade and the firms said real hydrogen adoption will be driven by the commercial vehicle sector.

Experts from both car manufacturers are convinced that when HGVs and other commercial vehicles take up the technology with vigour, that demand will make hydrogen filling stations more profitable and in turn drive demand for the technology across the automotive industry.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bmw-will-launch-hydrogen-cars-by-2030-but-warns-uk-is-lagging-behind/291802

Hydrogen has reasonable prospects for plant, HGVs & possibly LCVs but I can't see anything other than a small niche for passenger cars. 

EricMears

JKenH said:

Does BMW know something we don’t?

BMW will launch hydrogen cars by 2030 – but warns UK is lagging behind

BMW is planning to roll out a series of hydrogen-powered production cars by the end of the decade – but the UK risks lagging behind.

BMW has been working closely with Toyota on its hydrogen plans for the last decade and the firms said real hydrogen adoption will be driven by the commercial vehicle sector.

Experts from both car manufacturers are convinced that when HGVs and other commercial vehicles take up the technology with vigour, that demand will make hydrogen filling stations more profitable and in turn drive demand for the technology across the automotive industry.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bmw-will-launch-hydrogen-cars-by-2030-but-warns-uk-is-lagging-behind/291802

Any really large players in the commercial vehicle sector  might think it worthwhile to install Hydrogen storage facilities at their depots.  Everybody else will wait until there's a reliable network of public refuelling stations (or until hell freezes over which might be sooner).

1961Nick

There are plans & funding to roll out hydrogen pumps to truck stops but the plan is way behind schedule. There are currently just 15 refuelling stations & this would need to multiply 10x to get any critical mass & that's just for HGVs routinely using major trunk roads. It's unlikely that all but the most enthusiastic hydrogen powered passenger car drivers would want to use truck stops to refuel, so an entirely new network would be required. 

JKenH

Not one for the other thread.

Toyota gloats it was right to sit out the EV craze as Honda ends cheap electric car project with GM

While Elon Musk's efforts to explain the drastic slump in EV demand were rather haphazard during Tesla's Q3 press conference, Toyota's CEO engaged in a bit of a gloating "we told you so" moment over at the inaugural Japan Mobility Show. There, Toyota and Lexus showcased a number of new models that will only be arriving after 2025 when Toyota is ready to mass produce them on a new dedicated EV platform with a gigacasting method that beats Tesla in terms of production speeds and costs.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Toyota-gloats-it-was-right-to-sit-out-the-EV-craze-as-Honda-ends-cheap-electric-car-project-with-GM.762290.0.html

JKenH

More alarm bells sound on slowing demand for electric vehicles

Electric vehicle sales are still growing strongly, but that demand is not keeping up with the expectations of car makers and other companies that have invested billions of dollars in the EV space. Expectations for persistently higher interest rates has led companies to alter plans as they eye 2024 warily.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-more-alarm-bells-sound-on-slowing-demand-for-electric-vehicles/

JKenH

This story contrasts with the one above showing the disconnect between what is happening on the ground and the optimistic forecasts for the future. EV growth will continue: it can’t not, given the policies governments have put in place to end the production and sale of ICE cars but the momentum is slowing and the transition has now to be driven rather than proceed on its own merits. 

Rising Environmental Awareness Sparks Exceptional 42.1% CAGR in Alternative Fuel and Hybrid Vehicle Market from 2023 to 2030

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rising-environmental-awareness-sparks-exceptional-42-1-cagr-in-alternative-fuel-and-hybrid-vehicle-market-from-2023-to-2030--301967656.html

JKenH

Good or bad thing? Fans will say good, occasional users will say bad, no doubt.

Tesla is working on controversial ‘congestion fee’ at Supercharger stations

Tesla is planning a new “congestion fee” at Supercharger stations, and it’s building on top of an already controversial practice.

It sounds like at those busy stations where Tesla automatically sets the state-of-charge at 80%, the automaker would now charge you more if you decide to lift the limit above 80%.

https://electrek.co/2023/10/24/tesla-planning-controversial-congestion-fee-supercharger/

ABrass

Aren't EV sales volumes still up 40% on last year? And the incentives are being reduced everywhere except the US?

Right now EVs are still expensive compared to ICE. With the inflation we've seen it would be surprising if they didn't suffer more. But when inflation stops being such a problem they will rebound again, except by then the fundamental cost will be lower.