EV Discussion thread

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Especially now the wheels have stopped falling off

JKenH

michaels said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Especially now the wheels have stopped falling off

“All publicity is good publicity”. Toyota have admitted they are learning from Tesla. 

shinytop

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

How does Tesla fit into the quality positioning?

1961Nick

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

How does Tesla fit into the quality positioning?

What little there is inside the cabin seems to work OK.

Too many rattles for a car costing that much... although previous BMWs & Jags haven't been immune to squeaks & rattles either. 

JKenH

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s BZ4X is doing relatively well in the mature Norwegian EV market being the second best selling car last month at 522 units behind the Tesla Model Y at 647 units. While I accept one can’t read too much into one month’s statistics the Toyota is still the third best selling car over the last 3 months, outpacing each of VW’s ID models among others. 

Having been in the market for an EV earlier in the year, plus my Brother got the BZ4X, I have to say that the quality positioning of the Toyota is leaps and bounds above the VW iDs that I looked at when making a choice.

How does Tesla fit into the quality positioning?

What little there is inside the cabin seems to work OK.

Too many rattles for a car costing that much... although previous BMWs & Jags haven't been immune to squeaks & rattles either. 

Given the much wider choice of EVs available now, then based on the current market offerings, will it be another Tesla next time round or something different? Although I am quite a keen VW Golf fan I do like a change of scenery from the drivers seat when I change my car. I had 3 different Volvo V70s between 2000 and around 2017 but they all had distinctly different cockpits.  Unless Tesla have a change of heart I imagine future models will feature a similar central rectangular touch screen and not much else - would that (more of the same) put you off?

PS, I know all Tesla owners say they will never sell their Teslas but if you did…?

Reed_Richards

Tesla owners also tend to bore the pants off normal people by going on and on about them.

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

How does Tesla fit into the quality positioning?

Much higher than the VW's I saw.
A little higher in places than the BZ4X and a little lower in other respects.
Above the Kona and the IONIQ 5.  Possibly below the IONIQ 6 (but I never saw one is person close up).
Above the MG4 & MG5.
Above the Niro, below the EV6
Below the BMW i4
Below the Mercedes EQE

What really sold the TM3 to me was the battery capacity, SC network and the price point - I paid considerably less than my brother for his BZ4X.

JKenH said:

PS, I know all Tesla owners say they will never sell their Teslas but if you did…?

The second-choice EV car for me this year was the MG5 but it was not sufficiently cheaper than the TM3, had a lower capacity battery, no access to the SC network.  The killer was the ZERO NCAP rating.
The MG4 had FIVE-STAR NCAP but when looking I preferred the MG5.  Having seen a few MG4's on the road, they are growing on me.

If I had not ordered the TM3 on the day I did, then the Jag XE would have been the decision this time around (petrol).

If the price was right, then the BMW i4 would be a good alternative.
I'd also look at the IONIQ 6 if buying today.

I do assume that by the time I come to change the TM3, there will be a wider choice and the competition will have narrowed the gap, though assume the SC network won't be matched (even if the SC network opens to non-Tesla cars, I doubt that the interface with the car would be as smooth).
The challenge for the competition will be getting a car that meets the Tesla specification AND the price point.

JKenH

More on Toyota’s battery plans.

Toyota’s EVs Aim To Win With 620 Miles Of Range, But Not Big Batteries

Giant batteries aren't on the menu for Toyota and Lexus, but solid-state and radical parts downsizing are.

https://insideevs.com/news/694671/toyota-battery-lexus-lf-cz-solid-state/

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Toyota’s EVs Aim To Win With 620 Miles Of Range, But Not Big Batteries

Oddly the same range that Tesla have been promising for the Roadster for a number of years:
https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/roadster

It rather seems as though Toyota are caught by the Osborne Effect, but from a different perspective "we won't develop an EV based on today's battery technology because tomorrow there will be a better battery"

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Toyota’s EVs Aim To Win With 620 Miles Of Range, But Not Big Batteries

Oddly the same range that Tesla have been promising for the Roadster for a number of years:
https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/roadster

It rather seems as though Toyota are caught by the Osborne Effect, but from a different perspective "we won't develop an EV based on today's battery technology because tomorrow there will be a better battery"

It’s a conversion from 1000km. 

Not quite the Osborne effect. That is when people hold off buying the outgoing TM3 and wait for the Highland. 

Toyota are building and designing EVs based on existing battery technology but developing a better technology at the same time for future models.