EV Discussion thread

Netexporter

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

michaels

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

Although presumably they will then be subject to the current and proposed additonal import duties....

Netexporter

michaels said:

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

Although presumably they will then be subject to the current and proposed additonal import duties....

The duties and transport will be roughly the same as for an MG4, so a level playing field.

Grumpy_chap

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

Well, the price point PLUS, the iD3 is not built to the quality standards that you'd expect of a VW, nothing like a Golf.

Petriix

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

I did some market research for VW where they were interviewing people who considered buying an ID3 before ultimately buying something else. They asked me a bunch of questions before seeming perplexed that I had chosen the MG5 when I appeared to prefer the ID3 in many regards. I had to explain that, while I did think the ID3 was almost certainly a better car, it wasn't worth £10k more. I gather that they didn't take the hint. 

Netexporter

The other big mistake VW have made, and not taken the hint about, is KNOBS. The Skoda Enyaq sells like hot cakes because it has proper knobs. The ID series rely on rubbish (not to mention distracting) touch screens and unreliable haptic switches.

One reason I chose an MG5 was the PROPER KNOBS.

Martyn1981

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

Yep, cost is the killer. For a first BEV platform, the ID's aren't too bad. They are a bit overweight, and a little inefficient, though the software issues are a bit more serious, but nothing too bad (dare I say). But the price just isn't competitive.

Can't say I thought VW/VWG were too far behind ....... till they sacked Herbert Diess, and delayed the Trinity platform, now I think they have problems.

Legacy really need to bite the bullet, and invest massively in the transition to BEV's, asap. Moving slower isn't going to work now, Tesla and the Chinese aren't going to slow down.

michaels

Petriix said:

Netexporter said:

The ID3's problem is that it is 10 grand more than an MG4. I suspect that will be addressed by the move of all ID3 production to China, where they make the ones for the domestic market for half the cost.

I did some market research for VW where they were interviewing people who considered buying an ID3 before ultimately buying something else. They asked me a bunch of questions before seeming perplexed that I had chosen the MG5 when I appeared to prefer the ID3 in many regards. I had to explain that, while I did think the ID3 was almost certainly a better car, it wasn't worth £10k more. I gather that they didn't take the hint. 

But I can see their point, generally (especially in the UK) we are willing to pay thousands more for the mid market VW brand than for the mid market Renault or Peugeot brands which again we are willing to pay more for than for example ICE MGs, so why are we not happy with a 30% premium for an electric VW over an electric MG?

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Legacy really need to bite the bullet, and invest massively in the transition to BEV's, asap. Moving slower isn't going to work now, Tesla and the Chinese aren't going to slow down.

A question - I doubt any of us know the answer.
To what extent are the legacy auto manufacturers impeded by exactly that - legacy?

Tesla, MG, BYD, etc are all starting from scratch so need to meet the investment costs of new design and new factories but then come out the other end with ultra modern and highly efficient factories purpose built to the needs of modern EV manufcature.

Legacy auto have historical cost liabilities (pensions), existing workforce liabilities (Unions), and forced to do their best to adapt historical manufacturing sites to be modern and efficient and, by working around the constraints imposed of an existing site, won't arrive to something as efficient as a new build factory.  Likely less efficient in terms of manufacturing processes and facilities (space heating etc.)

If a legacy auto manufacturer said "we will close the X factory, rebuild and re-open in Y years as a totally modern best-in-class facility" there will be uproar from the site Unions, local community, and a sense of distrust that the new factory will ever open, then resulting in some lump of Government incentive and the factory will stay open, the transition will be slower and all the constraints of history will still apply.

Netexporter

MG, BYD, etc are all starting from scratch

No they aren't. They both make ICE cars. Only the MG4 is a ground-up EV, the other MG electric models have been ICE derived.