EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Used car values suffer largest September fall in 15 years

For the first month this year, EVs are the best-performing fuel type on average at three years 60,000 miles, as values have reduced by just 1.0%, in comparison to petrol and diesel cars at -2.0%.

It’s the smallest average reduction to electric vehicles in the last 12 months for Cap Live and comes against a backdrop of ever-increasing supply. Year-to-date, Cap HPI received over 30% more sold data records than in the whole of 2022, and August alone saw an increase of 82% over August last year.

Small- and medium-sized EVs are performing relatively well against the rest of the market; many of these now carry a trade value that’s “far enough away from more aspirational vehicles”, making them appear attractive in the retail market, even with a healthy margin applied. Models such as the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe actually increased in value.

https://fleetworld.co.uk/used-car-values-suffer-largest-september-fall-in-15-years/

JKenH

I was interested in this comment in the Tusker EV Driver Survey

https://resources.tuskercars.com/view/1013470346/

JKenH

Government tells carmakers that EV targets will remain in place despite delaying 2030 ban

The government has confirmed to car manufacturers that they will still be expected to meet strict targets when it comes to EV sales, despite the 2030 ban being pushed back

Speaking about the ZEV mandate, co-host James Baggott, said: ‘That ZEV mandate is probably more important than the deadline.

‘If they [carmakers] still have to hit that 22 per cent next year then they’re still going to be throwing everything at it because remember they get fined £15,000 per car that they miss their target by.

‘Dealers I have spoken to have said that is more important than anything else and I think in some ways government has been quite clever with this.

‘They have grabbed all the headlines by saying they’re pushing it back by five years to 2035 but at the same time they haven’t really adjusted it at all because they are still saying to dealers and manufacturers that next year they’re going to have to hit these targets.’

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/government-confirms-to-carmakers-that-ev-targets-will-remain-in-place-despite-2030-delay/290433

JKenH

Car buyers back delay to 2030 ban as more than ever say they will NEVER go electric

More car buyers than ever say they will never buy an EV as motorists back the delay to the 2030 ban on petrol and diesel cars.

A new study by Auto Trader has found that the number of people claiming they’ll never buy an EV has nearly doubled, on the back of the government’s U-turn last week.

Of the 1,700 in-market car buyers who responded to questioning, 37 per cent said they were unlikely to ever buy an EV.

The figure is close to double the 21 per cent of people who said they would never go electric when the 2030 ban was initially announced, two years ago.

On the flip side, those saying they will buy an EV by the time the ban is in place now stands at 39 per cent, a ten per cent drop on 2021.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/car-buyers-back-delay-to-2030-ban-as-more-than-ever-say-they-will-never-go-electric/290320

MikeJXE

Grumpy-chap said 

I am keeping a full spreadsheet of costs (ignoring the tax breaks) so will be able to come out with some kind of overall figure.  I won't, of course, have a control group of an ICE car doing the exact same duty so, the best I'll be able to do is an assessment of whether the total costs per mile (including or excluding depreciation) are higher, lower, or about the same.

That will be interesting I have been doing that with my Jaguar XE since I bought it in December 2019. It was 3 years old Jaguar Approved  and cost £16,000 Logged every Litre of diesel, mpg,  service tyres etc 

Not got it on a spreadsheet but that wouldn't take much effort 

Surprisingly last week I checked out the exact same model on Jaguar Approved, same year but 10,000 miles more than mine cost was £17,600 

Why would you think that is ? 

Grumpy_chap

WooHoo

At last, today, I finally got my home charge point installed and operational after all the faffing around over the meter and cut-out (fuse) upgrade.

In just over 2k miles of charging on granny charger, the overall efficiency between measured at the plug and measured by the car was a fraction over 15% loss.

In the first charge on the charge point, I have an under 8% loss:
 - 39.85 kWh at the meter
 - 39.4 kWh at the charge point
 - 37 kWh at the car

Now, one event does not make a statistical data set, but the omens seem pretty good.

Double WooHoo

Tesla sent me a marketing offer (seemingly in desperation) for new cars ordered and registered and taken delivery within September.  There are, it would seem, only five vehicles available.  Prices are all somewhat higher than I bought at in June.  For once, the vagaries of the market worked for me

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

EV tyres lasting 6,350 miles fewer than petrol or diesel, fleet data shows

Tyres fitted to electric vehicles (EVs) are lasting, on average, 6,350 fewer miles than those fitted to petrol or diesel cars, new fleet data from epyx suggests.

The first tyre change for electric cars takes place at an average of 17,985 miles and 551 days old, compared to 24,641 miles and 585 days for hybrids, and 24,335 and 670 days for petrol and diesel cars.

The average replacement tyre fitted to an EV was 18.59 inches and cost £207 while, for petrol and diesel cars, the corresponding figures were 17.40 inches and £130.

https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/tires-fleet-motor-finance/

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

A big proportion of those fleet EVs will be Tesla Model 3 LR with acceleration times similar to a BMW M3.You won't get 24,335 miles out of a set of BMW M3 tyres & Tbh you'd be lucky to see 15,000 miles.

1961Nick

Grumpy_chap said:

WooHoo


Tesla sent me a marketing offer (seemingly in desperation) for new cars ordered and registered and taken delivery within September.  There are, it would seem, only five vehicles available.  Prices are all somewhat higher than I bought at in June.  For once, the vagaries of the market worked for me

I got one from Tesla today... 0% interest for cars registered in September.

Think I'll wait for the Highland refresh & the initial furore to die down. Hoping for a sensibly priced Plaid as a last hurrah before the killjoys ban cars that quick.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

EV tyres lasting 6,350 miles fewer than petrol or diesel, fleet data shows

Tyres fitted to electric vehicles (EVs) are lasting, on average, 6,350 fewer miles than those fitted to petrol or diesel cars, new fleet data from epyx suggests.

The first tyre change for electric cars takes place at an average of 17,985 miles and 551 days old, compared to 24,641 miles and 585 days for hybrids, and 24,335 and 670 days for petrol and diesel cars.

The average replacement tyre fitted to an EV was 18.59 inches and cost £207 while, for petrol and diesel cars, the corresponding figures were 17.40 inches and £130.

https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/tires-fleet-motor-finance/

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

A big proportion of those fleet EVs will be Tesla Model 3 LR with acceleration times similar to a BMW M3.You won't get 24,335 miles out of a set of BMW M3 tyres & Tbh you'd be lucky to see 15,000 miles.

My old Leaf is still on its original tyres at 25k miles. I would expect EVs tyres to wear similarly to ICEvs of the same size with the same performance. I suspect what is happening is that people are moving to bigger faster and more expensive EVs  - the Tusker report suggests drivers are getting better cars on their SalSac schemes - and this is reflected in the tyre wear statistics. So, no, EVs aren’t, per se, heavier on their tyres but on average the cohort of drivers with EVs will be spending more on tyres than the ICE fleet drivers. I think it goes back to what I was suggesting on Sunday - EVs don’t necessarily save their owners money. Like for like they should but the savings are consumed by the drivers choosing more expensive EVs than they would ICE cars.

silvercar

MikeJXE said:

Grumpy-chap said 

I am keeping a full spreadsheet of costs (ignoring the tax breaks) so will be able to come out with some kind of overall figure.  I won't, of course, have a control group of an ICE car doing the exact same duty so, the best I'll be able to do is an assessment of whether the total costs per mile (including or excluding depreciation) are higher, lower, or about the same.

That will be interesting I have been doing that with my Jaguar XE since I bought it in December 2019. It was 3 years old Jaguar Approved  and cost £16,000 Logged every Litre of diesel, mpg,  service tyres etc 

Not got it on a spreadsheet but that wouldn't take much effort 

Surprisingly last week I checked out the exact same model on Jaguar Approved, same year but 10,000 miles more than mine cost was £17,600 

Why would you think that is ? 

Was doing similar. How are you accounting for insurance? Our leases include insurance, saving a much larger amount than anticipated.